DISCUSSION: detail tiles

Discussion and analysis of graphics, story, levels, and so on.
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XkyRauh
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DISCUSSION: detail tiles

Post by XkyRauh »

Alright, one of the easiest ways to give your mod 'pop' is to have a few tiles set aside that are minor variations of already existing tiles. Let's say you've got a wall in the background that's made up of bricks... an easy detail tile would be a brick missing from the wall. Toss a few of those in here and there, you break up the monotony, right? Right.

Only problem is, you might find your detail tiles themselves getting monotonous. We can always fix that by making a 2nd detail tile, and break up the monotony of the broken monotony. :-) So the question I have is simple: How many detail tiles should each background type have? Secondly, this topic can also serve as discussion for how to create these detail tiles.

For example, currently I'm looking for good detail tiles for a "SKY" tile. Obviously the simplest ones are clouds, flowers, trees, and perhaps even buildings way off in the distance. But beyond those everyday examples of detail tiles, what else can you do to set an outdoorsy environment up?

Do any of you guys have tiles you're looking for suggestions/help on? Here's the place to do it.

--Xky
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grelphy
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Post by grelphy »

Nice topic!

Actually, I find that my style of level design (many tight corridors) really doesn't allow for much background. Most of the time, well-placed columns are enough background. For larger areas, I take to using abstract designs. Most of my large chambers become "control rooms"; they get filled with all sorts of high-tech looking stuff. I try to avoid having large expanses of blank wall that require detail. However, I have discovered through much tweaking of big rooms that windows (into space, sky, whatever) are the best way to break up monotonous blank areas.

Interestingly enough, Keen 1 - certaintly a succesful episode, though not technically a "mod" - has huge expanses of blank surface and seems to work fine. Admittedly, there is some background - mountains and such - but most of many of the levels is plain blank grey or black. Hmm...

Edit: forgot to add, but I'm doing an outdoorsy type of mod for Vox (no further hints!) and also having trouble with sky. Because most of the levels are indoors, most of my sky is seen through windows. I'm finding that, no matter what I do (mountains along the bottom frame, various clouds, etc), the backgrounds end up looking flat, lacking depth, and generally being boring. Suggestions?

Edit 2: Aaah, a screenshot.
Image
xtraverse
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clyde rocks

Post by xtraverse »

That screenshot freakily reminds me of Clyde.
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XkyRauh
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re: suggestion

Post by XkyRauh »

Alright, forgive my lazy 30 second edit, but here's what I did:

1) added a "horizon" 8 pixels up in the window. This allows you to round off the bottoms of the mountains and give them a more 3d look--it means you'll have to sacrifice an extra tile or two in order to put the mountain tops on, but I think it's worth it. [Edit: be sure that the horizon in the window doesn't line up with your normal tile grid--that is to say, don't let the horizon go right up to the top of the tile. keep it a pixel or three off, so that it looks visually seperate from the foreground able-to-stand-on stuff.]
2) added some shading under the lower corner of the window--see how I made the pink stripe darker, and added an extra row of black to give it definition.

Image

I like how your stuff looks--not to drag this too far off topic, but how far along is that mod?

I'm still looking for ideas for sky-based detail tiles that aren't clouds, flowers, or vines.

--Xky
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Post by KeenRush »

Nice topic..

I haven't done very much outdoor background stuff in my modding, but sometime I will.. Those are good tips Xky. Also, adding some shading on some side of the mountains might look good.
To mention, very promising looking stuff Grelphy.

Some background ideas (besides those you said Xky), could be mountains and hills of course, maybe sight of a next level (if it's straight ahead in world map), sun(s), maybe some moon in "white/gray light" (you know those you can see sometimes on day time (at least here).. But nothing much more comes to my mind, it depends a lot of the planet.
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Post by lemur_821 »

Distant backgrounds tend to look flat with no parallax effects. Not much you can do about that.
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Oooohh... fun topic!

Post by CommanderSpleen »

Another intriguing Xky topic. Yay!

The tileset from CK:MB was frozen near the end of 2003, and didn't really develop much apart from cosmetic changes to make the colours clash less. Since then, one of my major aims has been to make the environment alot more organic and far less mundane. The main problem I noticed with my earlier (and marginally less, later) level designs was that initially they were quite cluttered and active (usually too much so) but after Keen blasted and pillaged his way through, everything would become far too barren.

I've added various forms of plant life and crazy animating backgrounds that make the levels feel a bit more alive. That way, after the enemies are slaughtered (or left in an empty corridor by some overtly humane player) and items collected, there's still some scenery lying around.

In addition to that, I've added inner corners for wall tiles, so that it's no longer necessary to pile slabs one on top of the other in order to fill in large offset areas.

BING! Screenshot:

Image

Here goes my attempt to offer suggestions...

Xky

Different cloud colours or interchangable formations (maybe 8 or 9 tiles that can be joined in many different ways to create a synergistic range of combinatinos) could do the trick for starters.

Rock formations jutting from the ground... things like that. Preferably reusable so they can be set up in all sorts of different ways. Polytoned semi-monotony, as it were. Or something.

Perhaps something similar to what Grelphy has done, taking into account what I'm about to randomly suggest:

Grelphy

As Xtraverse says, looks very Clydeish. And the mountains are quite Shadowlandsy. Nice.

I'm thinking you could add forests or other forms of terrain one tile below the current backdrop to form something of a foreground in order to add some extra depth. I'm thinking Tyrian from ground level... and with 240 less colours... that'd be cool.

-o-

Aaaanyway... that's my rant for the moment. It's probably a bit disjointed and such, but it's still lobster. Huh? Woo! Trees! *runs off at an angle*

Ooh. One last thing... I do have a tile ephrebulance issue... Anyone seen Shrek2? I want to create something like that huge chamber of potions and stuff. So far my efforts have been dismal at best.

Perhaps making the shelves two tiles high might work, for a start, but I'm sure there's something else I can do. Any ideas?

[edited: changed Cydeish to Clydeish... I know, I'm pedantic]

>Commander Spleen
Last edited by CommanderSpleen on Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by KeenRush »

Woah. GGrrg. Woahwhoawhoa! Lllmlmlmlm.. AWESOME! I can't wait to get playing that level! *drrroooool*
Anyone seen Shrek2? I want to create something like that huge chamber of potions and stuff.
Nope, but sounds like a good plan for a level..
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Post by levellord »

Mmmnnngh,...so...detailed...l33t.
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grelphy
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Post by grelphy »

Thanks for the responses, all. Those suggestions look good, Xky; I'll look into them. =)

SPLEEN: I haven't seen the movie you indicate, but it seems to me that you're looking for a torch-lit (orange) stone chamber with shelves of strange-looking bottles with oddly colored liquids on shelves on the wall. If so, here's my reccomendation:

1. Make awesome-looking animated torches. The torches in Keen 4 (there are torches in Keen 4, right? Right?) seem perfect to me: dark torch with very orange, flickering flame.

2. Wood shelves. If they're just background, offset them slightly from the tile levels (Like Xky's ground in my window). This will complicate the potions, but look better. The darker, the better, I think.

3. Finally, the potions. Put them in strange bottles with elaborate corks and give them strange colors and bubbles. The sodas in Keen 4-6 would provide perfect inspiration.

4. If all else fails, remember: lots of nasties solve every boring background problem ;)

XKY: There's really not much (keen) precedent for skies; clouds seem to be it. Of course, the only episodes with remotely earthly skies are 3, 4 and Dreams. 3 is kind of primitive, dreams is slightly short on background interest, and 4 is also limited to just clouds and trees. Of course, 4 devotes huge numbers of tiles to filling the sky, but it might be good to look at.

My main solution is clever level design. By minimizing the amount of visible sky, the amount of tiles you have to use for it are greatly reduced. It can also reduce boredom. This may mean small, sectional windows, or something else.
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levellord
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Post by levellord »

CLouds, the patchwork mod had perhaps the nicest clouds I've seen in a mod, although they were a bit small and repetitive.

Here are some tiles I whipped up, the mountains are altered from my upcoming mod.

Image

Image
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Entrails.

Post by CommanderSpleen »

Woah. Them's some nice detail tiles, LL. Those clouds between the mountains look too repetive, though.

And cheers for the suggestions, Grelphy. Given me a few ideas I wouldn't have thought of otherwise.

>Commander Spleen
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Post by KeenRush »

Neat stuff LL. :) Gonna be awesome mod..
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XkyRauh
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re: levellord's tiles

Post by XkyRauh »

Yeah, no kidding--nice job, LL! I've been working on my mosaic-mod for so long those look almost real. :-)

Thanks for the suggestions for clouds--I think I've got an idea that might work.

--Xky
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levellord
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Post by levellord »

Mmmmm, I expect your mosaic mod will put my pitiful tiles to shame, quite frankly the ideas for clouds are endless, those are just basic, I can imagine large grey clouds, wispy white clouds, raining clouds... after all. is not the sky akin to the ground?
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