i want to begin to learn mapping for the galaxy engine and i need someone to support me!

Request patches for Keens 4-6.
darkdave1985
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Re: i want to begin to learn mapping for the galaxy engine and i need someone to support me!

Post by darkdave1985 » Tue May 08, 2018 4:24 pm

thanks nisaba,

all the things you showed me, i knew already from testing around the last days but a big thanks of course for your help. i played around a little bit in the program the last few days and watched some fleexy videos again and so i want to talk about some things, and also have some questions.

1) when i changed something in a map, i save before trying it out but i also always make a patch because fleexy showed it on his video. he also showed to press un-lz exe after saving and patching to compress the original exe file but in my case i think, it was already made because when i tried it an error message occurred and the original exe was already pretty small in the folder. but it's no problem, because it works anyway.

2) on the first try i put in too much items and i couldn't play the map. what's the limt of put in items, or lifts or enemys and all that stuff from the infoplane? i know that there is a memory limit for each map and for the game overall but i don't know where it is and how much i can do in each map.

3) i heard that i need the version 1.4 of original keen games. i don't know which one i have because i still have to check it but do i really need this one or is any version ok to modify? so far i had no problems.

4) is it possible to change the original sprites from an original map? i only could put in or delete my own but not the original ones. but i want to replace them with my own. is this possible and when yes, how?

5) where can i find these small flashing white lines, you can stand on? also this invisible platforms?

thanks to everybody for helping me!

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Fleexy
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Re: i want to begin to learn mapping for the galaxy engine and i need someone to support me!

Post by Fleexy » Tue May 08, 2018 6:49 pm

Hi! I'm sorry I never replied to your YouTube message - I got really busy and lost track of things. I'm glad you registered on the forum!

I might have been unclear in the video. You only need to generate the patch file when starting the mod or when you make patch changes. You only need to UNLZEXE once.

It's hard to give exact limits for how much stuff you can have, but Abiathar has a tool that does a pretty good job. Under the Tools menu, click Level Inspector. Abiathar will analyze the current level and give you a report that includes warnings and problems.

The games display their version near the top of the "ready - press a key" screen when you first start them. If modding tools are working, though, you have the right version.

If you're asking about how to change the graphics, you will need another tool. KeenGraph is probably the best for this application.

The flashing white line platforms are in the foreground tileset to the right of the "edge of map" block, IDs 03CEh to 03D1h. Working with invisible or hard-to-see tiles will be much easier if you enable the Tile Properties overlay (press B on your keyboard).

I (and I'm sure also Nisaba) would be happy to answer all questions you may have. Happy modding!

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Re: i want to begin to learn mapping for the galaxy engine and i need someone to support me!

Post by Nisaba » Tue May 08, 2018 8:14 pm

  1. as Fleex already mentioned it, you don't have to UNLZEXE things. I already did all that stuff for you beforehand. Same for the patch. Your setup is ready to go.
  2. as Fleex said you want to consult the Level Inspector tool to check for possible crashes beforehand. What you want to keep in mind is that you have two options of placing point items. either as a foreground tiles or as a tileinfo plane. always try to use the first option if possible. sprites are more "memory hungry"...
  3. You don't have to worry about the right version of the KEEN4E.EXE. again, I did setup everything the way you don't have to worry about anything.
  4. yes you can. but let's just not rush things. this is a major step forward since it includes a lot of knowledge on how to extract, manipulate, choose the right colour palette, keep certain ratio aspects for your own sprites and tiles and so on and so forth. and if I may say so it might also be a good idea not to start with KeenGraph. at least not now. ModKeen seems to me a bit more beginners friendly. I already included all tools needed to do such task. but let's put this plan on hold for a second...
Fleex, Levellass and I would be happy to answer all questions you may have.
Happy modding!


(OFF TOPIC:
@Fleex May I ask for an Abiathar point item resource account feature, which list how many ammo, how many life water flasks, how many 100 point items, 200, 400 ... are placed in a certain level?)

darkdave1985
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Re: i want to begin to learn mapping for the galaxy engine and i need someone to support me!

Post by darkdave1985 » Tue May 08, 2018 9:13 pm

thanks fleexy for your helping,

i'm pretty sure it was my bad english, that i didn't understand it right in your video but anyway. and i didn't mean that i want to change the graphics. i meant that i want to exchange the original monster and items placement with my own in a map. before i used the wrong word sprites for that, so that was my fault too. i can only place or delete my own fresh items in a map but i can't exchange the original ones with my own. i want a 1:1 original map but just with my own monster and item placement. is this even possible and when yes, how?

oh, and thanks nisaba for that point items placing tip. i always took enemys and items from the infoplane, because i didn't knew the difference. good to know!

and one final question. how can i make a completely blank map from scratch? because i want to try to draw a whole background correctly. just a little bit at first, just to get a feeling for it because this will be for sure not so easy i think. and how can i select more than one tile at the same time for the background or foreground to be faster? i knew it before because i saw it on fleexy's video but i forgot about it.

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Re: i want to begin to learn mapping for the galaxy engine and i need someone to support me!

Post by Fleexy » Tue May 08, 2018 10:35 pm

You can remove any infoplane icon by placing the zero tile on it. Make sure the infoplane is active, right-click a spot with no infoplane icon to pick up the zero tile, then click on a spot with an infoplane icon to remove it. You can clear an entire level's infoplane by using the Rectangle Filler: make sure only the infoplane is active, pick up the zero tile, press R on your keyboard to switch to the Rectangle Filler, click the upper-left corner of the level, and click on the lower-right corner. If necessary, you can scroll or use the arrow keys while you're in the middle of selecting a rectangle. Once you click the second corner, the rectangle's infoplane will be cleared. To get back to the normal editing mode, press Escape. The tool label in the lower right should go back to saying "Tile Placer."

As Nisaba said, if you make a mistake (even one as big as accidentally deleting an entire level), you can press Z to undo.

To create a new level, go to the Level menu and choose Add. Give it a name and some dimensions, then click OK. You will be given a completely blank level of the specified size. If you checked "automatic edge," Abiathar will pre-fill the two-tile-wide solid border for you. You can change which level you're looking at by selecting a different one under the Level menu.

To copy large blocks of tiles, use the Copier and Paster. Press C to activate the Copier, which lets you drag to select the region to copy. Once you finish copying from the level, you will be switched to the Paster, which lets you click to paste the copied region. If you copied from the tileset, press V while your mouse is over the level to activate the Paster directly. Again, you can press Escape to switch back to the Tile Placer (the normal editing tool). These tools both respect plane activity, so make sure you have the right planes active.

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Nisaba
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Re: i want to begin to learn mapping for the galaxy engine and i need someone to support me!

Post by Nisaba » Tue May 08, 2018 10:50 pm

concerning your first question I'm still not quite sure what you are up to...
are you about to replace let's say the Lick Image with another sprite you've made yourself like this Slurple over here Image ?
if this should be what you are up to then I'm asking for your patience. I think it's a good idea to get to know Abiathar's mechanics first. Cause in order to add new monsters/creatures you'll need additional tools to do so. you can of course take a look inside the BMP folder. there you can find all sprite (monster/creature) graphics, which of course can all get modified. But again: later, not at this point!

darkdave1985
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Re: i want to begin to learn mapping for the galaxy engine and i need someone to support me!

Post by darkdave1985 » Wed May 09, 2018 11:36 am

to nisaba:

no, of course i don't want to draw new sprites or try to create anything new made by myself. i couldn't even do that. that would be much to early to try something like this, and it would be much to complicated for me in this early stage of modding. all i meant was, when i open up a orginal map and try to exchange an enemy or point item which is already existing (the original ones from the programers) with my own, it don't work for me. but meanwhile i found out, what i did wrong and now it works.

to fleexy:

i knew that with the zero tile, but what i don't knew was that i have to switch into the foreground at the same time to delete original point items because i took my own always from the infoplane and thought that the original ones are also coming from there. but now i finally know, in which mode i have to switch to edit what kind of thing. and to all the rest you showed me, i will try that all one by one. some things are not sound so easy, but i will try my best.

thanks everybody and cu later!

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Nisaba
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Re: i want to begin to learn mapping for the galaxy engine and i need someone to support me!

Post by Nisaba » Wed May 09, 2018 1:32 pm

sorry, my bad! didn't read your previous post carefully enough...

another tip:
when the level map is visual you can press 4, 5 or 6 on your keyboard to enable/disable different tileset layers. this way you can check whether or not a point item is actually foreground or infoplane.

darkdave1985
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Re: i want to begin to learn mapping for the galaxy engine and i need someone to support me!

Post by darkdave1985 » Wed May 09, 2018 3:45 pm

why are so many item things, in both foreground and infoplane? and also in original maps, there are always some items from the infoplane and others from the foreground. has that a specific reason? because of that it gets a little bit annoying when i want to exchange items from an original map with my own. for the infoplane items i can use the rectangle filler now to delete them all at the same time but when i want to delete the items for the foreground too, i have to click on each and every one of it because otherwise i would delete the rest of the foreground too.

and when i want to start my own map from scratch. how should i make it there at best? what makes the most sense and how do you all do that?

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Re: i want to begin to learn mapping for the galaxy engine and i need someone to support me!

Post by Nisaba » Wed May 09, 2018 4:39 pm

infoplane vs. foreground items:
there are situations where you cannot place an item as a foreground tile. for e.g. secret areas. If you want to hide an item behind a wall you need the wall tile as foreground and the item as infoplane to make it appear behind this wall tile.

your second question is a very difficult one. I'd say that it's easier to start with an existing level and change things a bit. for e.g. make the level larger, add further platforms and and a couple of obstacles. while doing that, you will practice your modding skills. make sure to test your tweaks in game. over time you will get a feeling where to place stuff.
but if you really want to dive into the modding theory I'd suggest to check Ceilick's modding tutorial package. in this zip file you'll find a folder called "Modding Theory" with a couple of helpful PDF's concerning:

Code: Select all

1. Level Design...........................................................................................................3
1.1 Level Size.........................................................................................................3
1.2 Level Design Commandments.........................................................................3
1.3 Level Theme.....................................................................................................6
2 Improving Level Design...........................................................................................7
2.1 Worldmap vs duration of singe levels..............................................................7
2.2 Real and apparent macro progression.............................................................7
2.3 The worth of progression.................................................................................8
2.4 Leading the player's attention..........................................................................8
3. Methods used by other modders..........................................................................9
Link: http://files.shikadi.net/keenwiki/tools ... -10-18.zip

darkdave1985
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Re: i want to begin to learn mapping for the galaxy engine and i need someone to support me!

Post by darkdave1985 » Thu May 10, 2018 12:47 pm

i tried to modify border village a little bit but that fucking thing drives me crazy. for example i put in point items 100% correctly from the foreground tileset into the foreground. but when i play the map, there is a indication error by one item for whatever reason. but i did nothing wrong and it's always just by the one same item everytime, no matter how often i try.

then i wanted to put in some spears into the first house from the ceiling. i put them into the foreground correctly but when they move in the game, they disappear always behind the background where this one starts. but there is always a background in every map, so how can i place them that they not disappear somewhere?

and the next weird thing is, that after i have saved or i don't know what exactly the reason for this is, that i can't delete my own placed items anymore for whatever reason. why? i took them from the foreground tileset in the foreground correctly with just the foreground active always, but after some time or maybe after a specific work step i just can't delete them anymore. they are just not tangible anymore, no matter what i do. exactly these are the things, that i feared. i was very very careful with everything but still there is always something that goes nuts. and so i hope somebody can help me!

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Re: i want to begin to learn mapping for the galaxy engine and i need someone to support me!

Post by Fleexy » Thu May 10, 2018 2:57 pm

What do you mean by "indication error"? Does the game crash, or do the items not appear correctly? Note that you cannot have an animating foreground tile (like the point items) over an animating background tile (like some of the tree eyes). The Level Inspector can check for this problem.

I'm not sure what you mean by the spears disappearing, but if the tip disappears when the spear extends, make sure that you put all the tiles in the level. There are some initially invisible tiles that animate to the new tip when the spear extends. Try copying a working spear from an existing level, or place the spear in the level in its most extended state.

I suspect your last problem has to do with plane management. Make sure the plane that has the item is active. If you're not sure which plane something belongs to, try hiding one of the planes by pressing the 4-6 keys. For example, pressing 5 toggles the visibility of the foreground. In general, it's important to keep an eye on the plane states - these are shown in the lower left by the selected tiles. That all assumes you're using the Tile Placer (the normal editing mode). If not, let me know which tool you're trying to remove the items with.

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Re: i want to begin to learn mapping for the galaxy engine and i need someone to support me!

Post by darkdave1985 » Thu May 10, 2018 4:11 pm

with indication error i mean that the item in the foreground looks ok, but the background tile itself also this sqare where the item is in appears in weird blinking colors. but now after checking it once again, it's that what you said. it's on a moving background tile and so this happens, good to know that now. to be honest, i find this a little bit sad that this don't work together. because of that, i have to know exactly all moving background tiles to avoid that problem. that's really pity because that limits that items placement thing.

i had just put in the first part of the spear, where you can only see the top from it. so i have to put in all parts, also the whole spear? ok, goot to know that. oh, and i can copy things from one level to another? also i copy a thing, go to the level menu and still can put in my copied thing in the new opened one? everything from all 3 tilesets?

i always make sure that the right plane which where the item should be put in, is the only one which is activated. also when i put in point items from the foreground tileset, i make sure that only the foreground is active. i also always work with 4,5,6 to hide whatever i don't need at the moment, when it's necessary but i still have this problem, that at a specific moment i can't delete them anymore. maybe it's my fault but it's hard to say because i'm sure that i did everything correct.

anyway, i will try these things again and then i tell you if it's working then or not!

THANKS SO FAR!

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Re: i want to begin to learn mapping for the galaxy engine and i need someone to support me!

Post by Nisaba » Thu May 10, 2018 6:06 pm

two things real quick:

a) you might want to save and share the level you are currently working on. this makes debugging way easier. therefore click the [Level] menu and then [Export] the level.

b) I updated the wiki with fresh info on how to use Abiathar for general and special tasks. this might be helpful as well: http://www.shikadi.net/keenwiki/Keen_Ga ... el_Editing

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Re: i want to begin to learn mapping for the galaxy engine and i need someone to support me!

Post by Nisaba » Thu May 10, 2018 6:29 pm

to answer your questions:
  1. that's the way the game was designed by id software... but you will get used to it soon.
  2. yep, you need to copy over all three tiles of the spear, even those you cannot see.
  3. when this issue occures, please take a look at the bottom right corner of Abiathar. there should be an indicator which tool you are using at the moment. (maybe you are in paste mode) for e.g. when pressing [F] on your keyboard you have activated the Flood Filler tool. [L] activates the Linker and [ESC] activates the standard Tile Placer. so you might need to press [ESC] again.

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