Map Layout

The Commander Keen Community Mod!
User avatar
CommanderSpleen
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 12:11 pm
Location: The Land of Sparkly Things
Contact:

Map Layout

Post by CommanderSpleen »

Alrighty, here's the latest draft for the world map:

Image

Notable issues:
- I'm not sure about the locations of some of the levels in the top right. Level juxtaposition may not make sense.
- Stream, ford and beach might be better hidden behind the optional slug village.
- Waterfall hasn't been connected yet, but it might work well as a reward for completing the lick waterwheel.
- Should the archaeological sites in the top-left desert area be interlaced with other levels? Their layout seems a bit too similar to the Keen 4 pyramid area, or at least a bit too isolated.

My next task is to compose a list of a) special item locations and b) special conditions for level entry. In the meantime, pick this apart and tell me what needs modifying.

Edit: Forgot to include the meadows and algal pool.

Originally the meadows were intended to go just before the misty woods, but instead they'll go in that path between the slug and lick intersections.

<Ceilick> which could add another 'mission objective' to the game. Take the slug path, you have to search in the forest for an item to get through the meadow to the swamp, take the lick path you have to search the swamp for an item to cross the meadow for hte forest. Thats probably more than you guys want going on though
<Spleen> Actually, that's a classy idea.
<Spleen> Being able to collect the item twice might be awkward, but it shouldn't be too troublesome.

The algal pool belongs somewhere up near the geyser.
Last edited by CommanderSpleen on Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
levellass
Posts: 3001
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:03 pm
Location: Ngaruawahia New Zealand

Post by levellass »

Interesting, the map tile shall practically draw themselves!
lemm
Posts: 554
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:32 pm

Post by lemm »

That layout looks very nice, and there's enough branch points to make things interesting for the player. A good ratio between essential and non-essential levels I think.

Most of my suggestions are just about laying stuff out visually not the connetions.
- I'm not sure about the locations of some of the levels in the top right. Level juxtaposition may not make sense.
The schematic-ness of the drawing makes it look a bit cramped on the right, but I think it will look fine the way it is connected once everything is spread out a bit more. I would suggest that the swamps, lake, boot hill could go in one cluster in the center/upper right, the path to the canyon is stretched out A LOT and the geyser goes halfway in between canyon/swamps. I think if you put a screen or two between the mineshaft area (which is moved to the south more) and the swamp area it will look alright.

In addition, I think you should put in a few more streams to connect the lake to the river, and the mountains to the lake. The water network will serve to unify the whole map. Levellass tiles really give great depth perspective to the map, so we should exploit that and make the water flow downhill a lot.
- Should the archaeological sites in the top-left desert area be interlaced with other levels?
They are connected schematically okay in my opinion, but to better connect them visually, I think that the forest should extend into them a bit more, so that the leftmost is buried in the forest, the second at the periphery of the forest, and the third in a badlands type area.
<Ceilick> which could add another 'mission objective' to the game. Take the slug path, you have to search in the forest for an item to get through the meadow to the swamp, take the lick path you have to search the swamp for an item to cross the meadow for hte forest. Thats probably more than you guys want going on though
<Spleen> Actually, that's a classy idea.
<Spleen> Being able to collect the item twice might be awkward, but it shouldn't be too troublesome.
That's really cool, I think it adds to replay value if you do it that way. Making an item in/visible depending on the prior path is totally patchable.
User avatar
Deltamatic
Posts: 163
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:33 am

Post by Deltamatic »

Looks great! I think it would be easier to hide the secret level(s) in the ocean rather than the lake, though.
User avatar
CommanderSpleen
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 12:11 pm
Location: The Land of Sparkly Things
Contact:

Post by CommanderSpleen »

lemm wrote:so that the leftmost is buried in the fores
Sounds good, then it can be an Aztec/Mayan theme while the one on the right would be more Egyptian.
lemm wrote:I think you should put in a few more streams to connect the lake to the river, and the mountains to the lake. The water network will serve to unify the whole map.
Sounds like a plan.
Deltamatic wrote: I think it would be easier to hide the secret level(s) in the ocean rather than the lake, though.
Yeah, that's a better idea.

I'll get another draft happening, stretching out the right hand side and shifting a few things around now that I've got a clearer vision of the place.
levellass
Posts: 3001
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:03 pm
Location: Ngaruawahia New Zealand

Post by levellass »

Can't we have several secret levels? Scattered about the map? I'd like to see one buried in a forest somewhere, maybe another in some distant part of the map where only dedicated explorers could find it. We have 32 levels after all. (And knowing Lemm, many more.)
User avatar
Fleexy
Site Admin
Posts: 490
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:33 am
Location: Bloogton Tower

Post by Fleexy »

You can have about 100 levels in Keen 1. Just try numbers in the 47-92 range; most work. Of course, their status isn't saved and entering them can mess up some stuff.
User avatar
CommanderSpleen
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 12:11 pm
Location: The Land of Sparkly Things
Contact:

Post by CommanderSpleen »

I'm pretty sure we're at about 31 with that map. So there should be one spare that we can use for another secret area.

In other news, here's the current list of item triggers. Anything I've missed? Any suggestions for other quests?

SLUG CROSSING
provides pepper
requires pepper quest completed

LICK CROSSING
provides really bad cola
requires cola quest completed

SLUG CITY
provides cola quest completed
requires really bad cola

LICK CASTLE
provides pepper quest completed
requires pepper

HIGH TECH ARCH SITE
provides firefly

DARK FOREST, FOREST PATH, FOREST CITY
requires firefly

MEADOWS
requires someitem1

???, ???
provides someitem1 (if not already collected in other level)

???
provides goggles

???, ???
requires goggles
User avatar
Deltamatic
Posts: 163
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:33 am

Post by Deltamatic »

I was thinking about two things: how to make a nice peaceful meadow impede progress, and how to make the key that unlocks it not be so powerful that the player wonders "why couldn't I have used it over there, too?" So I came up with the key being a clothespin and the lock being dizziness-inducing flowers. Keen stops his nose and walks across. The place where Keen finds the clothespin could be the cemetery on Boot Hill, since it has some levels leading up to it and it would be nice to reward the player for his effort getting there.
lemm
Posts: 554
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:32 pm

Post by lemm »

Deltamatic's idea sounds good. We can go over 32 levels if need be for CKCM.

possible Idea for getting to secret area:

boat/raft on beach on world map is powered by gleebs; the more gleebs keen has, the faster he can travel on watercraft. If keen gets enough gleebs, he can move fast enough against the tide and sail across ocean to secret island level.

scatter gleebs in hard to reach places in various levels. This is a totally optional, ongoing quest, and it's a change from "find one thing to get another thing"

I'm sure what a gleeb could be... maybe it's some duck like creature with really large paddle feet
User avatar
doomjedi
Posts: 341
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:30 pm
Location: Israel

Post by doomjedi »

CommanderSpleen wrote: requires firefly
This is instead of torch? Interesting idea. You are so creative :)
MEADOWS
requires someitem1
I've suggested in the past to have a metal detector or minemap to pass a landmine field...you said it was never used before, nice idea...why not?
(Minemap fits Keen-style better IMO)
User avatar
doomjedi
Posts: 341
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:30 pm
Location: Israel

Post by doomjedi »

Deltamatic wrote:The place where Keen finds the clothespin could be the cemetery on Boot Hill, since it has some levels leading up to it and it would be nice to reward the player for his effort getting there.
Ah, the Cemetery...Didn't we suggest to have a funeral you need an invitation to in order to pass to the Cemetery level?
lemm wrote: boat/raft on beach on world map is powered by gleebs; the more gleebs keen has, the faster he can travel on watercraft. If keen gets enough gleebs, he can move fast enough against the tide and sail across ocean to secret island level.
I like it very much :)
User avatar
Grimson
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:45 pm

Post by Grimson »

Will the cemetery be anything Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts like? ;)
Didn't we suggest to have a funeral you need an invitation to in order to pass to the Cemetery level?
Somehow I don't find that very Keenish...
User avatar
doomjedi
Posts: 341
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:30 pm
Location: Israel

Post by doomjedi »

Well....we can alter that idea a bit... Book of Spirits that will let him pass?
User avatar
CommanderSpleen
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 12:11 pm
Location: The Land of Sparkly Things
Contact:

Post by CommanderSpleen »

I was actually kind of considering swapping the meadows with the misty forest, since it's a more logical obstacle, but one of those solutions could make the meadows work. I like the mine field better than the clothes peg idea, though the latter is certainly amusing. Maybe it could show which flora is poisonous and which is safe to show a way through?

The required item could go in the cemetery, but taking the slugs' mission instead of the licks' would result in that level becoming irrelevant, unless it is made to be a blocking level to somewhere else.

lemm's secret level concept is great. I'm all for it.
doomjedi wrote:This is instead of torch? Interesting idea. You are so creative :)
Heh, I'd love to take the credit for that one, but it was suggested by someone else in another thread. I think it was Deltamatic. The high-tech archaeological site will have a bridge puzzle in it which ultimately traps a wild firefly that flies around the level.

I agree that the funeral invitation concept isn't terribly Keenish, though IMKO it's more Keenish than the book of spirits. It needs to be something light-hearted and zany...
Post Reply