Game Objectives Rantage: Episode One

The Commander Keen Community Mod!
User avatar
CommanderSpleen
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 12:11 pm
Location: The Land of Sparkly Things
Contact:

Game Objectives Rantage: Episode One

Post by CommanderSpleen »

This thread will be for ranting and brainstorming, and not for storing a final plan. Another thread will be made for that.

In order to proceed further, we need to figure out just what the obstacles for this episode are to be. So far it has taken a kind of Keen 6 style map obstacle approach. The idea so far revolves around a slugs vs licks feud. Keen becomes the middle-man in a prank war. The proposed structure for this so far is:

crashed BWB --> Sunset forest --> Slug village "get me a pepper!" --> decaying swamp --> Boot Hill --> Slug village "now pepper Lick food!" --> waterfall --> Lick fortress --> Slug village "now get me some lifewater!" --> archaeological site --> Slug village "thanks, you can't cross haha!" --> across the bridge

I'm going to throw around some possibilities that come to mind. They don't all fit together, and I'm not advocating any as official plans. Just food for thought.

I think the current scope is a bit too narrow, and the slugs vs licks part should be merely a sub-plot. (Well, this was true when I did when writing this, but after completing this cyclic post and time-traveling back here it seems more viable.) The part where the slug decides the player can't cross after all, forcing the use of a telporter as a circumvention, seems anti-climatic. (In fact, the reason stated for using this was that the map teleporter had been used, but we have one other available--the one that returns from the secret level, and it should be able to be set to go anywhere we want.)

With the slugs and licks thing, we could turn it into something of a plot fork, where the player can choose to take one side or the other. Or carry out both tasks anyway, just for the sake of completion. Of course, the map structure might be made to prevent doubling back and the ensuing levels somehow reflect the decision (slugs are friendly, licks are deadly). This latter idea is not terribly practical though.

The lifewater bit seems better as a separate objective altogether (although the potential for a witty one-liner about 1UPmanship tempts me to keep it as-is), like some kind of old hermit creature who send Keen off on the quest and provides some kind of artifact that move the story forward.

The lifewater quest itself could be more than just the search for a flask, and instead a mission to collect enough droplets to fill one, whereupon the flask is awarded and may be delivered to its recipient. Of course, if we keep this as a slug thing my earlier comments are irrelevant.

The ultimate objective is to get to the mineshaft that leads into the depths of the mountains. A number of obstacles will simply be blocking levels that prevent access to segments of the map, as in the original Keen episodes.

Now I think I've actually almost persuaded myself that the existing plan is the right course of action. But we'll see what everyone else thinks first.
User avatar
doomjedi
Posts: 341
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:30 pm
Location: Israel

Re: Game Objectives Rantage: Episode One

Post by doomjedi »

CommanderSpleen wrote: The lifewater bit seems better as a separate objective altogether (although the potential for a witty one-liner about 1UPmanship tempts me to keep it as-is), like some kind of old hermit creature who send Keen off on the quest and provides some kind of artifact that move the story forward.
Maybe Keen can use some kind of drum or artifact (given to him by the elder) to call for sacred rain - which will put these drops into the levels in the first place- for him to pick up later.
The lifewater quest itself could be more than just the search for a flask, and instead a mission to collect enough droplets to fill one, whereupon the flask is awarded and may be delivered to its recipient. Of course, if we keep this as a slug thing my earlier comments are irrelevant.
It can be split to 2 or more tasks....a task to find a special flask to carry the sacred water - and another task to fill it up with drops from the sacred rain.
Last edited by doomjedi on Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
lemm
Posts: 554
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:32 pm

Post by lemm »

I agree with spleen that the licks vs slugs thing should be a subplot, and I think it should be more lighthearted than the remainder of the episode, which becomes slightly more serious/mysterious in the middle, (and maybe more fast paced / run-and-gun style levels near the end?)

It would be cool if helping either the licks or the slugs changed something later on down the road.

hmmm, some kind of explosive device to open this mineshaft... or the materials to make said device. That could be the penultimate objective.

Of course the materials to make it are located on some far away island, and you need to unlock a teleporter to get there. Perhaps the teleporter is located in slugville, and if you help the slugs early on, you get easier access to the teleporter later on.

To go along with Doomjedi's idea, Books or Scrolls make good artifacts, and would make good statue text replacements. Maybe those shrouded dwarfs could be guarding the artifact in the temple.

(slugs are friendly, licks are deadly). This latter idea is not terribly practical though.
It's fairly easily patchwise, but you will have a heck of a time designing levels to anticipate either situation. We could even make licks and slugs interact with one another, initially attacking each other, and neutral to keen's presence, until he chooses a side.
User avatar
doomjedi
Posts: 341
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:30 pm
Location: Israel

Post by doomjedi »

Yes, I can draw some nice scroll.... or book.

Another idea is to invent hints not in STA - but in new crypto symbols (Ancient Elder Crypt?) - which he'll need the find a key to be able to read and translate - to move on with the plot.
User avatar
CommanderSpleen
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 12:11 pm
Location: The Land of Sparkly Things
Contact:

Post by CommanderSpleen »

Hmm. Maybe a linking book artifact that allows the player to teleport to a particular destination, but needs to be brought to someone in order to have it activated...
User avatar
Deltamatic
Posts: 163
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:33 am

Post by Deltamatic »

The anticlimactic "you can't pass haha": yeah, bad idea. The slug king should just let Keen pass when he gets his lifewater.
The possibility to help the Slugs, or the Licks: great concept. But how would it be handled? The only thing that comes to mind is mutually exclusive world map paths, via one-way teleporters. And besides, that would cut down on the amount of levels we could use for wilderness areas. Unless, that is, we could extend the slug/lick conflict to the wilderness areas...
Lifewater extension: you have to collect x amount of y item (lifewater drops? but how would that work--point item or keycard, but patched to act completely different?) and then the flask (patched ship part) appears in inventory.
Books/scrolls: books can be the world map teleporters, probably long-lost technology left by Gnosticene Ancients. Bringing the book to somebody to activate it would be neat, but kind of tedious (OK, I need to teleport over there, so I'll have to enter that level and bring the book to the guy *again*).
Dr. Kylstein
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:20 pm

Post by Dr. Kylstein »

I think that if the Slug thing isn't going to be the main plot, it ought to be limited to the pepper quest.* I'm a bit traditional, but I think there should be a three act structure with the pepper quest as either the second or third. If it's the second, I might make the pogo recovery the first. If the pepper is first, the life-water could be given to a different npc or obstacle as the second act. The mine entry would be third.

It might throw a wrench in things at this point, but I wonder if the archaeological stuff and lifewater backstory should be saved for the second episode, since it is planned to be underground. A big reveal towards the end of episode two would be a good rising action to make way for the climax in episode three. The goal of the mines/mountains in episode one would be strictly for reaching the city, and the fall would provide the serendipitous discovery of the invaders' motivation. (Edit: Oh wait, they were after the Oracle? I got confused and thought it was the lifewater. Might we change it?)

*The Slugs vs. Licks thing could provide amusing background action though, with scenes of past pranks and post-pepper retaliation in some of the levels.

Edit: So in summary, I would make the progression:
. pogo recovery -> pepper quest -> mountains -> mine collapse and end of ep1
. ep2 dramatically reveals the secret of lifewater at the end, with the implication that this is what the invaders are after
. ep3 Keen arrives at the city to save the day
Apologies for significantly re-writing the story.
User avatar
Deltamatic
Posts: 163
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:33 am

Post by Deltamatic »

Making pogo recovery the first quest is a smart move. Inspired by the slug/lick conflict plot branching idea, though, how about this:

pogo recovery -> pepper quest -> slugs or licks? -> mine collapse and end of ep1
User avatar
CommanderSpleen
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 12:11 pm
Location: The Land of Sparkly Things
Contact:

Post by CommanderSpleen »

Alrighty, I'm all for tearing out the lifewater part and putting a big revelation about the invaders' true motive at the end of episode two.

The slugs vs licks feud needs simplifying. Cutting out the idea of one side turning against you while those on the other side become your friends would make the plot fork a practical idea. There could be a slug village that allows access across a river, and a lick castle that guards a desert or forest pass. Slugs and licks would still kill you regardless of your decision.

The pogo recovery part seems too much like rehashing Keen 1. I'd rather just leave the pogo in at the start.

A device to activate the mine shaft somehow is a good idea. Maybe it's meant to power a lift or something, but it malfunctions and causes the cave-in.

Throw in one more quest between the slugs/licks and the mine shaft and, combined with classic map progression blocking levels, maybe with a couple of alternate paths, should complete things. From there we can start divvying the objectives and the items necessary to complete them into appropriate levels. Then levels can be put into physical locations.
Dr. Kylstein
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:20 pm

Post by Dr. Kylstein »

Here's a random idea: maybe there are some creatures that are doing some kind of construction/excavation. Keen has to get past a cliff or something, so he gets them to bulldoze it and make a ramp. Then when he reaches the mines, they are digging into the mountainside and accidentally trigger the cave-in. They might make further appearances in episode two, digging their way back out.

If I recall correctly, we have the ability to make collecting items or beating levels alter the world map through hacking the "Done" markers. Making the map change as the game progresses would be very cool. In the second episode, I think we should look into having tunnels open up throughout the game, perhaps due to the diggers, or by activating digging equipment, or breaking guardian machines, etc.
Kdash
Posts: 405
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:45 pm

Post by Kdash »

I wonder if we could have multiple map files, since the map is going to change so much throughout the game?
User avatar
Deltamatic
Posts: 163
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:33 am

Post by Deltamatic »

I looked at the Keen 1 map, and it's just vast. Map size will not be a problem; in fact, I've been wondering about shrinking the area the player will travel over from the entire map to a portion of it, so that the world will seem less sparse.
User avatar
CommanderSpleen
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 12:11 pm
Location: The Land of Sparkly Things
Contact:

Post by CommanderSpleen »

Remember that we will be using a map scale similar to the later Keens, instead of tiny level icons. So the Keen 4-6 map sizes are what you want to compare the CKCM's with.
lemm
Posts: 554
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:32 pm

Post by lemm »

genius314 wrote:I wonder if we could have multiple map files, since the map is going to change so much throughout the game?
Like level79.ck1? That would be chaotic to patch, but possible if absolutely necessary.
Remember that we will be using a map scale similar to the later Keens, instead of tiny level icons. So the Keen 4-6 map sizes are what you want to compare the CKCM's with.
Going by that, we should be able to fit about 6 keen4 maps in a 128x128 tile space. I think that could house 32 levels no problem.

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/6669/019p.gif
Kdash
Posts: 405
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:45 pm

Post by Kdash »

lemm wrote:
genius314 wrote:I wonder if we could have multiple map files, since the map is going to change so much throughout the game?
Like level79.ck1? That would be chaotic to patch, but possible if absolutely necessary.
Yeah, it seemed like it'd be crazy to patch. It was just a suggestion.
That picture is freaking me out...
Post Reply