Yorpius II level design

Discussion and analysis of graphics, story, levels, and so on.
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Stealthy71088
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Yorpius II level design

Post by Stealthy71088 »

Let's see what we can do!

Here's level one of Yorpius II

Here's my notes and some questions to get us started.

Stealthy's Notes
-There's one yorp in the level. When the level begins, it usually runs to the right, right into the water. Although this is a little entertaining, Keen doesn't usually get any time to play with it. Because of that, this level isn't a great introduction to the concept of yorps.
-You can get a very easy 900 points in this level. (I think)
-There are 15 shots worth of rayguns here, along with a pogo.
That's not a lot to work with, but we have to start somewhere. So here are some questions.

Code: Select all

 1. How would you restructure the level to make the yorp more interesting, assuming you weren't changing the dimensions.
          2. Would you keep the points where they are now? (particularily that hotdog) 
          3. Do you think giving the player amount of ammo this early in the game is wise?
          4. Where / When, should the player get the pogo? And should getting it be more of a fight?

If you guys come up with any more questions, post em!

edit:It won't let me link directly, so you'll have to click Yorpius II, then the pink cave closest to the Bean-and-Bacon Megarocket.
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adurdin
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Post by adurdin »

An introductory level should generally provide a more gentle introduction to the game; although I realise that this level is not compulsorily first, due to the map design.

This level doesn't provide the player with a safe area to practice running around and jumping to get used to the controls; instead there's a deadly pool of open water right at Keen's feet, and a difficult jump (for a newbie, at any rate) onto a high platform. So my first task would be to get rid of that. I'd probably replace it with "steps" up toward the yorp's platform.

Next, the yorp: I'd make sure he'd stay on his platform, so that the player can get used to it and realise that not everything that moves is an enemy.

Continuing on to the exit, I'd get rid of that hot dog, and instead place two or three 50pt items in the air over the water, leading down to the platform on the right-hand side; and on that platform, I'd place one 500pt item as a reward (I'm still thinking of newbie players here). The rayguns and pogo I'd take out -- there's no need for them in this level that I can see, instead I'd put in another level where they would be of use.

Finally, the platform at the top left. With the removal of the left-hand open pool, this jump from the purple-topped block, although more challenging is quite safe, so I'd not alter that; instead I'd place a couple of 100pt items here (thus giving the player familiarity with three of the items available). If there's a good reason for a raygun in this level, I'd put it up there instead of one of the 100-pointers.
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Ceilick
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Post by Ceilick »

1. I'd make the middle platform 1 tile shorter and put barries on either side so the yorp cant walk off.

2. Im assuming the hot dog is worth more than the bottles, so id put the hot dog in the upper left and the bottles arranged in hte middle.

3. I wouldnt put any ammo in this level, theres really no need to have ammo here unless ammo is rare in the other levels(which it is in this mod, which i would change also).

4. When to get the pogo really depends on the story of the mod. In this one it doesnt make a lot of sense that keen doesnt have his pogo from the start. Mentioning why keen doesnt have his pogo in the story would be useful.

Its a good intro level; if a non-keener were to play it they would be able to figure out the controls, learn about the slippery tiles, and practice their pogoing easily. I think having an easy intro like this is important since the other levels are so hard.

Edit: I overlooked that first water pool, steps are great idea, that first jump could be really hard for beginners.
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XkyRauh
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hmm.

Post by XkyRauh »

The fact that the level is only one screen in size does a lot more than you'd think--we're immediately given a taste of the visual style of the mod. The map is just a means to get into the action; here we are presented with our first tasks.

Given the 'difficulty' of this first level, it's safe to assume the rest of the mod will be equally challenging. By comparison, Keen1's first level began the player in a completely static screen--the player has to interact with the game enough to get the screen to scroll to the right before we are presented with our first creature (and even then, we are presented the means to avoid it, if so desired) ... this level, as a mod, bypasses much of that exploration, particularly because the Yorp is just a palette-swap.

From a modding standpoint, this is totally acceptable, possibly even expected. Knowing KeenRush, this level is almost TOO simple. ;)

But from a new-game standpoint, I agree with Andrew... there needs to be more time to adapt to the controls. If we can't change the dimensions of the level, we can at least lower the water level and make the level an S-shaped track of exploration, giving the player a chance to learn to jump small obstacles and experience the Yorp first-hand. Really, I'd rather make the level two screens in width, and just expand everything horizontally to fill in the space, with the Yorp off-screen to the right, so there is the scrolling aspect involved.

Ultimately, I think this level works great as a first level--but its placement on the map makes that function ambiguous.
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Freeyorp101
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Post by Freeyorp101 »

I thought there was only 100, 200, 500, 1000, 5000 pt items?

donut 100, bottle 200, hotdog 500, computer 1000, burger 5000.

hmm :

Image

introduces new users to the fact that yorps are friendly, and to doors. also stops yorp falling, and lowered some points, added others. kept the pogo stick, as I presume it was intended to be easy to get (as it was in keen1 as well. (unless you want to get the pogo in the whiskey level- then its harder.)) shots were intended for next level I think, though im not sure why all green thingys are almost invincible, as normally they could be dealt with...

EDIT: oop. the picture is quite small - I think photobucket made a mistake in saying max 1mb when it's 1kb. *sigh*.
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levellord
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Post by levellord »

Well, thats the natural size of the picture; you should doubble its dimensions, *then* submit it for a better picture.

In starting levels I go for the Keen 1 appraoch; a moderately large level that introduces the player to the way things are done around here.

Sprites: Keen should have a chance to play with commonly encountered sprites, but the deadly ones should be in a situation where Keen has the advantage, to look, take note, and kill if wished.

Points: Not too many, this is a starter level after all. Each level should have as many points in it as its worth.

Shots: Again, not too many, I like to put in only as much ammunition as is needed.

Construction: The level should be a miniature of the mods theme; if your mod is set in a forest, your first level should be a small grove of trees, if its at the beach, it should be a pool, in a factory it should be a small building.

And thats me for now.
Kdash
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Post by Kdash »

I think first levels should add something to make the player feel like the outside map has more purpose than choosing a level. (I can't really word this right...)

For instance, if you look at my first mod, there are actually two possible first levels. Either way, both interact with the map.
The level where Keen's ship is docked, you start out at a door onto the ship, where you can see the BWB outside.
And in the blocking level, its as if you are going through a ship, and getting out on the other side. You start out outside, and end up outside.

Also, in Kidnapped Keen, the first level had the teddy bear and Garg from the story, which was nice. (I know there were other games like this, but its the only other one I could think of.)
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Post by Benvolio »

You gotta show off your graphics in your first level: not all of them but a lot, like in Keen4, where the graphic complexity of the game can be seen the minute you enter level 1. Take Duke Nukem 3d for example, the very first scene has some of the best graphics in the whole level in it. First impressions make a huge difference in consumer-oriented things like a computer game.

There's no point in having some beautifully slick thing in level 15 if there is nothing in level 1 to entice the player to keep playing the game. Take my mod, Vanished to Venus, which has pretty uninteresting graphics all the way through. But the first level (the first 2x2 tile one on the map), I spent 2 and a half years fine-tuning that one, and the result was it was photogenic for screengrabs. The first level is important.

It has to be almost for granted that the first level is easy, with no keys, not all the killing enemies, plenty of fun and preferably some innovative designs. Take level 1 of xkykeen3, it has enough in it to whet the player's appetite, yet it doesn't reveal half the graphics that are still to come for the player who plays the whole mod.

More to the point, I think Keenrush's level is a great start to one of my favourite mods. Having said that, level 1 of Keenrush's second mod Smile, is evil... waaaaay to hard. You have to make the player feel good at the end of level one. For instance, when I first played Keen1, I first thought "this is hard stuff" in Level one, then when I had the level completed, I thought, wow this looks like the game for me. It's all psychology, and Keenrush handled that aspect of it well, especially as there was no other mod to look at and think "that's how it's done".

By the way, I might as well say now that I haven't been seeing the tiles in Spatang's mod levels section for ages... they worked for me at the start but then all you saw was the sprites and it's been that way ever since... does this happen to anyone else?
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Post by Kdash »

Spatang is very messed up. The replies to the news are messed up, the downloads are messed up, the login is messed up. Xtra better get to work... :-)
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CommanderSpleen
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Post by CommanderSpleen »

Firstly, I'd be tempted to get rid of that pogo and patch the mod so the player starts with it. This mod was created well before that patch, and it would probably have been used if it existed at the time.

However, having the pogo there means it's possible to completely skip it and play the rest of the game without it. Also, as Andy said, this level doesn't have to be first.

If you look at it as an introductory level, I guess you could consider it a 'jump before you pogo' lesson. The player is rewarded for making it over the water with something that will probably make some other levels a lot easier.

The rayguns are excessive. I'd take a look at the other levels and consider whether that much firepower is really necessary. If they need to be there, I'd put one or two up in the top left, and another one a couple of tiles below the exit if necessary.

Points should not be in a place where they'll be collected as a matter of course. The hot dog, a high-point item, sits directly within the shortest path to the exit. The player would have to go out of their way to avoid it. I'd move it into the space above Keen's head, making sure it's out of reach from a normal jump and only accessible if the player decides to backtrack after collecting the pogo.

The bottles would go. I'd replace them with donuts hovering in the space between that single-tile platform and the ladder.

I'd be tempted to level the ground across the bottom slightly, either bringing up the lower sections by one tile, or bringing the middle section down one [but the height difference is a nice touch, so they'd still be offset].

Then the yorp needs attention. Placing tiles at both edges would make it feel cramped... maybe just one at the right so the player will at least interact with the yorp before it plummets to its doom [maybe it's just going swimming?]

The trees are too close to platforms for my liking... they need space. So I'd move the one in the bottom-right away from the ladder [or vice versa]... once the heights are adjusted the other one should be fine.

The size of the level is an integral part of it, IMKO. If it was made larger, it would cease to be this level.

Now, to put it through Vortlev...

Image

I ended up taking a few more liberties here, most notably the two platforms along the top leading to the rayguns. There's also still the question of how much weaponry is required. The gun on the right stays, but the two on the left could be replaced with two bottles again.

The island in the middle should probably also have been extended one tile to the left, so there's more room for the yorp. The hot dog might then need to be shifted a bit, though. I also went against my decision to keep the heights offset, but the jutting bits at the edge of the island make up for that I think.

There should be some more points, too. I wasn't comfortable putting bottles in mid-air, so I used donuts. Perhaps I could've put a bottle on those two platforms and had the donuts hovering above the yorp.

This thread is turning out extremely well. There's so much interesting stuff to read, and for such a new topic there are already so many replies! Nice work, y'all!
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Post by Benvolio »

Tempted though you are to patch, in my opinion the merit and beauty of this mod is how unpatched it is - how much is left to the artistic side, not the programming side. Having said that, I couldn't possibly stand making a mod without pallette patch, which is probably why i've used Keen1 even for "A Sham on Inishmort" which should be a Keen2 mod strictly speaking.
The rayguns are excessive
Excess is not an evil, it's a virtue. I'd much rather a mod with too much ammo than too little, although a balance is best - where you think there's too little yet there really is plenty.
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levellord
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Post by levellord »

I suggest Spleen give us the remade level, we redo each Yorphius level and release it as a Yorphius levelpack.
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Post by Benvolio »

You mean, we're each assigned a level (16 of us), and we redo it and submit it? Yeah that's a good idea. Then move on to the next mod, in chronological order of release.
Stealthy71088
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Post by Stealthy71088 »

Ha ha, so we would have patchwork level packs! Although, if we do that, the packs would be very much like the original- We would have to include some new levels too.

Keenrush, you're welcome to give us whatever information or viewpoints you would like. Just because its your mod doesnt mean you can't give your own opinon on what should be re-done, if anything.

Adurdin said
This level doesn't provide the player with a safe area to practice running around and jumping to get used to the controls; instead there's a deadly pool of open water right at Keen's feet, and a difficult jump (for a newbie, at any rate) onto a high platform. So my first task would be to get rid of that. I'd probably replace it with "steps" up toward the yorp's platform.
Having somewhere to learn how to work with the Keen sprite is definitely important for any mod. Despite the difficulty of Universe, (which I have only one level left to edit!) I have two levels with areas like this in the beginning. At the same time, I like the idea of having that island as a definite unconnected island in the level. This creates a bit of a problem.


Spleen said
The size of the level is an integral part of it, IMKO. If it was made larger, it would cease to be this level.
The size is a definite characteristic of the level. Because it is so small, it gives you some sense of peace, in that there is nothing overly complicated for you to learn how to deal with yet. It also makes a nice preview to the mod, and gives the player an easy feeling of accomplishment, leading them to play more. However, maintaining this, the island, and having a safe area is nigh impossible.

My solution? I would combine the island with the area with the pogo and the ladder, by erasing the island, and extending the platform with the ladder 4 blocks to the left. I would have one block one upraised on the left to keep the yorp in, and I would extend the water all the way underneath the new island. Technically, the yorp can still jump over that one block, and fall in the water, thus making it possible for it to go swimming, and still giving you time to play with it. I would put the pogo where the bottles are (assuming I decided to keep the pogo), and move the tree next to the ladder up there too, perhaps on those steps. This gives a certain amount of space to use for the safe area.

I would extend the platform that keen starts on to the tree near where the yorp was. On the right side I would make a little 2 (height) by 3 (lenght) tile hill, with the tree at the top. On the left side I would have a slippery platform or two, as well as the hotdog touching the bottom of the platform in the upper left corner, (which is taken from Spleen)

Point wise I would have a little trail of donuts forming a "cool jump" going from the safe area to the ladder island. I don't like having the rayguns there, so I would either get rid of them or I would place one on top of the hill at the right side of the safe area.

I would leave the area underneath the safe area open, allowing the yorp to go under there when he is swimming.

Whew. That's all for me for now. How long should the wait be (for people to post what they want) before moving on to the next level?
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Post by Benvolio »

Well, what I'd like to see is a section Modding Reviews.
Within that section, you would have a sub section Yorphius II and likewise for other mods. I know that so far there is no such thing as a sub section of the forum, but maybe Adurdin, one of the world's most accomplished programmers, might know how to do this. (For all I know phpBB won't let us do that at all).

Within the Yorphius II sub-forum, there would be a topic for each level, like this one. Then our reviewing would be systematic. Andy could add a new mod to the discussion every week or so, depending how quickly people are discussing the mods. This way, each modder's work would get the same amount of attention that the modders themselves geve them.
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