Yorpius II level design

Discussion and analysis of graphics, story, levels, and so on.
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Freeyorp101
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level 9 thoughts

Post by Freeyorp101 »

indeed, this is a very difficult level. The keen1 secret eleporter equivelent was also very difficult to get through- but the rewards in both are good.

the triple jump at the start would be easier if the second torch was one tile higher, but considering there is half a life availible, perhaps it should be left alone, and the key should be the one moved.

The third upper indent in the secret level entrance should be extended to the left a bit I think- as it is the jump is very difficult.

THere should be more ammunition too- is on the bridge too far in the level to put this?

There is a lot of potential in the cave- maybe a platform with goodies in the main clearing?


I quite like the top platform, but it should probably be simplified so that it doesn't become like a fetch level.
Stealthy71088
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Post by Stealthy71088 »

It's too bad there weren't any really icy puzzles in this level. I mean, for the most part you really don't have to worry about Keen slipping into the water or something. Snow and ice were built into Keen1, so I think I would have liked it if this were better taken advantage of.

It might also have been good if the entrance to the secret level was built in a way that you could climb back up if you want to. That way, someone could get all the points in this level without having to go to the secret level.

Let's talk about location. Do you think that this level is the right one for hiding the entrance to a secret level? Would one of you have picked a different level? Personally I believe this is a good level for something like this.

I think it would have been nice if the entrance was hidden a little better. Perhaps if the cliff keen starts out on were to extend a little further out, so keen would have to crawl back up to the entrance by jumping over the torches. How it is set right now it's so easy to find it by accident. However, I do think that having the entrance right where it is in this level is perfect. The player isn't going to expect the entrance to be right there, and has no clue that anything is out of the ordinary.

In general, what are everyone's favorite methods of hiding secret levels?

The ice cannons here are nice. They aren't nearly as annoying as they could be, and both of them could push keen into a danger via ancient or flames. These are the only two in the entire mod.
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XkyRauh
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Post by XkyRauh »

I think the torches on the left at the beginning of the level aren't intended to be dealt with directly--isn't that platform that the Ancient Beast starts on to the right able to be reached by pogo? I could be wrong. It looks to me like we're intended to leap over and go down and around to get the keycard. Sure, it's POSSIBLE to dance around and go directly to it, but the safe/smart way is the longer one, right?

Usually when I'm searching for secret areas, I'll hug walls / test ceilings at any place that looks suspicious. For example, a hallway which ends in several hundred points is going to be less suspicious than an empty hallway. Or a seemingly dead-end passage in a maze... never hurts to check the walls/ceiling, hmm? :)

I will admit, I tend to miss secrets a lot on my first playthrough, because I'm trying to find the EXIT first--but once I know where the start- and finish-locations are, then I start experimenting with alternate routes and secret areas.
Stealthy71088
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time for the sec. lev.

Post by Stealthy71088 »

Xky: That is the right path

Well, I guess it's time for thesecret level.

To start off this thing, which is better, having a secret level be a ridiculously hard and challenging level for the people brave enough to attempt it, a level like this, which has goodies galore, or a level that has something secret in it, like the dopefish cameo here, or Cosmo in Norp2?

It's too bad you can barely see the dopefish here. I wish it was closer to the wall so people could get a better look. Since the butlerbot sprite wasn't used, it would have been nice if a dopefish sprite was made too swim around in there. That would have been the ultimate secret.

Let the posting begin!
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XkyRauh
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Post by XkyRauh »

I was half expecting the goodies to spell something out in SGA, really. :)
This level has things to get, a couple ways to die, and a secret... that's all any level needs, at its core. If we wanted to expand this, there's plenty we could do, but to be honest I think we'd need to query KeenRush to find out what exactly he -wanted- in this bonus stage. :)
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Freeyorp101
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Post by Freeyorp101 »

I think that this level is more of a reward- you can have as many lives as you want from this level easily, and the second secret is difficult to get to and rewarding.

I think that this level should be left pretty much as is, but with a corridor or something to explaiin how keen actually got there (from the outside it looks like an open temple...)
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Post by KeenRush »

Again, haha, the secret area isn't that well hidden. :D But yeah, as it's a secret level that player normally wouldn't even see, it doesn't matter that much. I wish I had got the idea to use the butler bot to make a swimming dopefish there, but guess did I? :(
Stealthy71088
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Post by Stealthy71088 »

I like the different caverns in the middle- it gives the level a really cave like feel

Freeyorp: those are shrines? I thought they were different color caves
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Commander Keen: The Next Level

Post by Stealthy71088 »

Here's the next level.

This is a big level. It reminds me of that other level with all the plants, Level 3 I believe. There's plenty of dangers to make the level interesting, but nothing too deadly...other than that blind drop right over the lake. There are only two rayguns for this level. However, you need 11 shots. Another raygun may want to be added, since the second raygun is out of the way a little.

What I admire most about this level is it's weaving, mazelike quality. You can get through the level without dying by just being careful. However, there are multiple interweaving paths throughout the level, many of which lead to little bonus areas. If you are careless, you can easily miss the subtility of the real path because of the plants.

The secret area is kinda neat. Hi Keenrush! Somehow I wouldn't be surprised if your favorite color was green. The blocks, blue and edge of map...It's all really cool and creative, but I don't really see the point you're trying to get at, if there is one. Those block tiles aren't used anywhere else- did you just decide to have blocks called blocks for this level? Or are those remements of the chain block? The chain isn't used at all in this mod- you couldn't find a use for it?

Alright, post away!
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Post by Stealthy71088 »

Hello?
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XkyRauh
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Post by XkyRauh »

Sorry; Firefox doesn't like to load up the level maps for some reason--the latest update seems to have broke it. I couldn't view the maps at work for a while, there. :)

This level screams "I need a background!" more than any other we've looked at so far--there's a lot of recycled ground to be covered, here. We cross the level left-to-right multiple times, because of the key-door thing. The sparse points are nice for keeping us going, but after they're gone, we're left with huge barren stretches of blue sky. More than anything, we need some sort of earthy pillar / twisty vine / mossy inlet background to help give us some variety.

My only complaint with the flow of the level itself is the fall onto the muncher plant on the far right, with the hot dog just above it. I don't like that at all. But if we had our arrow tiles mentioned earlier, it'd be no sweat--the rest of the level flows just fine.

Assuming we got the backgrounds and arrows in, I think it works great the way it is--but what's the point of the extra door/tiles on the right? KeenRush? :)
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Post by Stealthy71088 »

It's funny. If you notice, none of the levels start on the right side. Keen always goes right to left. I find I do that a lot too when I'm making a level.
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XkyRauh
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Post by XkyRauh »

It's a mainstay of platform gaming from that era--the Super Mario Bros. game didn't even allow the screen to scroll to the left, and even up until Super Mario World, Mario spent most of his time moving from left to right... in fact, I can't think of any Mario1, 3, or World levels which involved moving primarily from right-to-left. Even in levels which have a segment like that (5-3 in Mario3 (Kuribo's Shoe!)) the segment is preceded and followed by a left-to-right portion. :)

Of course, 3d games have changed the standard from "Hold Right and press Jump" to "Hold Forward/Up and press Attack," so I can't complain too much... ;)

The only Keen1 level that had a primary right-to-left movement was the Vacuum level, right?
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grelphy
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Post by grelphy »

In keens 1-3, keen always starts the level facing right; he can be made to go from right to left, but it requires some ingeneuity at the beginning of the level so he doesn't just start out facing backwards.

In keens 4-6, keen can start out on facing either direction, and starts at the right side of the level fairly often (think slug village).

I read a review somewhere that cited this as a "feature"...
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XkyRauh
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Post by XkyRauh »

But it's important, I think, to note how the map design flows into this--Keen starts on the right side of the map, and begins the first level moving from right-to-left. There's a flow there. Keen5 did the same thing--Keen starts at the bottom, and the first level has him ascending. Somehow, Keen6 screwed this up. Keen runs right-to-left to enter Bloogwater Crossing, but plays the level left-to-right!? Garg. Inconsistent. ;)
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