Bananasauros v1.2 and DX level critique

Discussion and analysis of graphics, story, levels, and so on.
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VikingBoyBilly
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Bananasauros v1.2 and DX level critique

Post by VikingBoyBilly »

Shamelessly ripping off Commander Spleen, I decided to start a thread with the purpose of critiquing the maps in Bananasauros. The advice I take here might be used to make improvements for the release of what I'd call version 1.2, with improved levels and a new sounds file.

HOWEVER -

With the pic of one level I will also include a screenshot of the same level how it will be in a rerelease with the working title "bananasauros DX." The main differences will be quite a few new tiles, particularly slopes and filler tiles that fix irregularities to make things look a bit cleaner. There will be quite a few more differences than this, mainly a day and night system that swaps the tiles and sprites around, lots of new levels, and possibly different player classes, but for now I'll just show the level as it would appear in the daytime, as that is all thats necessary for this critique for now (that and I haven't really worked so hard on alternate levels yet outside a tile swap.)

So, without further ado, let's start off with the level that should hold the most resonance for any game - Level 1! (technically it's LEVEL02, but lets not be nitpicky).

The original -

Image

Small, simple, and straightforward. I intended this to be a nice starting level to ease the players into the gameplay without any difficult challenges right off the bat, and I hope you'll agree I succeeded doing so.

The revamp -
Image
Not a lot of differences here, but notice there are sloped landscapes! Actually, I fear I may have gone a little overboard with the sloping and sacrificed some of the background/foreground scenery. What do you think?
Kdash
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Post by Kdash »

Well, when you first enter the level, it seems like it can be overwhelming to the player - there's 5 or 6 small clouds, a couple leaves, overlapping trees, two creatures, and a character to talk to. Maybe add some more space to the left, and start the player off in an place where there's just flat ground and a couple of background tiles. That way the player has to walk a bit before seeing all of these things. Or better yet, spread this stuff out a bit more.

Pacing seems pretty good for a first level. Reminiscent of the first level of Cosmo, with high trees and lower areas to explore, while at the same time being linear enough to not confuse the player.

I'd add flat ground near the water trap, rather than have the ground slope down. Otherwise the player can too easily slip off. This might work in a later level, but it seems like a cruel trick in the very beginning of the game.

The biggest problem I see is at the end. Although the trees allow the player to ease their way down, it still has the feel of a blind drop, especially with the enemies lurking below. I'm not entirely sure how to fix this.
One thing I'd definitely change is to remove the last enemy near the door. It adds a bit more stress on the player to have to dodge an enemy when they're right next to the exit. And once inside the exit, the player can still feel as though they aren't safe yet.
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Tulip
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Post by Tulip »

Aye, G314 pretty much sums it up, and I completely agree with the cosmo feel.
It's overall a very nice first level, I would remove the Tomatodon at the exit though, because it feels relatively unfair: you don't have to fear anything the whole level, and when you reach the exit you get killed unexpectedly. sure for an experienced keener it's not a problem, but if you want to make it enjoyable as a stand alone game w/o experience I'd remove it.
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VikingBoyBilly
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Post by VikingBoyBilly »

Good analysis G314, it really helps. I agree, the enemy at the end should get the axe. I'll be sure to edit in all your suggestions.
Next level:

Original -
Image
Deluxe -
Image

Once again there is the same problem mentioned above - too much stuff cluttering the startpoint, including a text bubble. Notice that bit of ammo on the cliff near the entrance - it wasn't there before. I always intended to put an ammo there from the beginning, but I accidentally let it slip when I released it. Whoopsie, that must have made things hard to deal with until you made it more than halfway through the level. Rocks that were intended to block the player from skipping the level by dropping through the cliff have been replaced by slopes. Caves have been made to look more natural. It's no longer all blocky and obviously made by tiles.
Dr. Kylstein
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Post by Dr. Kylstein »

I can't say much about the level design, but I would like to say that the tiles used in the right side of level 2 are very confusing. It's difficult to tell what is solid and what isn't. The sloped version is slightly better, but could still use improvement. Highlighting the solid edges more and reducing the noise and/or contrast in the the non solid parts would really help. A quick fix might be to continue the grass across them, but there are many ways to fix this.
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XkyRauh
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Post by XkyRauh »

In your original level 1, there is an area of flat land to the left of the body of water. In the revamp, you have a sloped area leading directly into the water. That's dangerous! I think the original, with the flat land before the water, was better. :)

I'm sure the sloped rocky sections on the right side of level 2 are more easily viewed in-game, but in this form, I agree that they are very confusing. Some sort of distinction needs to be made.
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Ceilick
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Post by Ceilick »

I agree with Kdash's points: the beginning is too overwhelming, the slope into the water, and the blind drop at the end are all good areas for possible revision.

To solve the issue in level 2 with the cliffs on the right, I'd suggest making some lighter and/or darker patches of rock (similar to what you do with the red background near the flower). Additionally, you could add 'cracks' into the rock face, either small 1-2 tile cracks or long diagonal ones.
Last edited by Ceilick on Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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CommanderSpleen
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Post by CommanderSpleen »

There are a lot of unavoidable points in both of these levels. IMKO the whole idea of point items is to reward the player for going out of their way, even if it's just the ever so slight inconvenience of jumping off the ground. If you can't help but run into them, it's no fun. So aside from what's already been mentioned, that's what I would fix.

The pit at the beginning of level 2 is an interesting grey area here. Technically they're avoidable, but is it easier to jump or fall? I wouldn't bother revising that, since it is a slight inconvenience to fall into the pit and get back out, but it's an interesting thought.
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VikingBoyBilly
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Post by VikingBoyBilly »

Ok, so the complaint about the walkable cliff paths is something that must be changed in the tile art, not in level design. So I think I might color it to be a bit lighter than the rest of the cliff, either dithered white or just hard white. For now you'll have to bear with me as levels screenshots I post here will have the hard-to-discern solid floor tiles for now. Yeah, the points do seem a little superfluous, especially on the right half where there's points all over the 'windows' of the cliff.

And hurrah! A post from Xkyraugh! (rhyme very intended)
Have you become keenmodding exclusive?

NEXT MAP -

Exhibit A
Image

Exhibit B
Image

Note - those big reddish flower-like plant buds are Cupid Fruit traps, which become active and killing at certain times, but they are dormant now.
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CommanderSpleen
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Post by CommanderSpleen »

especially on the right half where there's points all over the 'windows' of the cliff.
Noting of course that the filled windows aren't actually the problem, but the fact that they're in the path of least resistance, and the only way not to get them is to jump over. Were the windows higher, so that you actually had to do something to get them, they would be pretty coolgut.

There are plenty in the first level as well. In fact, you can hardly go a full screen without running into one.

An interesting approach here might be to consider every point item a hazard, and see if it's still possible to complete the level.
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Tulip
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Post by Tulip »

In level 2 i think the 5000 point item can't be seen from anywhere, you can't know it exists, some leafs, or clouds shaped into an arrow indicating it might be a good idea to drop down there should be added.

Level3:
I'm curious how those fruit traps work, if they're tile-based they can only be killing all the time or never, giving only certain animation frames the killing property won't work.

Also the pit with the ring seems a bit strange, is that solid ground or not? hard to tell.
I can't exactly remember the map layout, but is it possible to obtain the pogo ability before beating this level? because if not the bananas in the upper right are useless.
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VikingBoyBilly
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Post by VikingBoyBilly »

If you go to other levels on the world map before coming to the last one seen above, it is possible to have the pogo jump.
As for the cupid fruit traps - in this state are constantly dormant. But there will be alternate versions of the map where the fruit traps will be awake and biting. I already blantantly hinted at this in the first post, but to make it clear what I mean by this, I guess it's finally time to let the cat out of the bag and show you:
Image
Image
Image
Image
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XkyRauh
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Post by XkyRauh »

VikingBoyBilly wrote: And hurrah! A post from Xkyraugh! (rhyme very intended)
Have you become keenmodding exclusive?
"Rauh" actually rhymes with "Cow," believe it or not. :) Sorry!

I've noticed that all the levels so far don't really have a border on them--the level juts straight up against the side of the screen. In the original Marooned on Mars, they got around this by having each level take place inside a city/cordoned area, so the borders were clearly defined. Not saying you need a big ugly wall around each level, but some sort of visual distinction that "hey, this is as far as we go," would be nice.

This is a minor complaint, but if you're going back to re-do graphics, consider softening the edge of your clouds a bit. Currently, they are white clouds with black edges on a blue background. Why not turn that black border into dark blue? Why not experiment with dithering the edges a bit? That might help the clouds not stand out so much--they are somewhat confusing to "read" quickly, and they appear to clutter the level unnecessarily.
Similarly, if you wanted to spend a couple of extra tiles to create alternate/larger clouds, you could spruce the level up by adding variety as well! :)

Your new tilesets do a much better job of distinguishing the cliffside platforms from cliffside background, but anything you could do to further identify things would be wonderful. I can offer an example if you like.

On to level four? :)
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VikingBoyBilly
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Post by VikingBoyBilly »

Sorry for the delay. I have no excuses. I was just lazy.

Exhibit A:
Image

Exhibit B:
Image
lemm
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Post by lemm »

I think the mod as a whole could use some more foreground elements. Perhaps columns could be placed in the ruins level. A few more monotony breakers in the background would be welcome.


I approve of the ever-diminishing blockiness.
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