DISCUSSION: Keen 1 level design

Discussion and analysis of graphics, story, levels, and so on.
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Fleexy
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DISCUSSION: Keen 1 level design

Post by Fleexy »

I'm sick, at home, and sick. So I started a topic. I was interested in Keen 1's level design, and I wanted to see what other people think. :)

Image

My notes:
  • This level is linear, good for a first level
  • There are nine yorps in this level. Is this too many?
  • If you want, you can jump up for bonuses
  • Good use of background
My questions:
  • Is nine yorps too many?
  • Should there be *any* possibility of dying?
  • Should a raygun be here?
Just things to get the ball rolling. ;)
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XkyRauh
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Post by XkyRauh »

Where are you getting a count of nine Yorps? One at the start, two atop the first stretch, one by the Pat-Pats, two atop the second stretch, and two near the end. That's eight. :)

As an introductory level, this teaches the player a lot about the game world in rapid succession:
- Foreground pillars appear solid, but can be walked past/behind.
- Vertically-striped blocks are solid only on their top side.
- Points are distributed such that higher values are harder to obtain.
- Presence of alien language near ammo and dangerous tiles. Even without knowing the words, we can recognize a pattern!
- Consistency of Mars tiles--all boulders/platforms in the red shade are AT LEAST three blocks wide, giving them an established 'shape' that helps immerse us in the game world.

I like that the player begins their journey in a blue area--it is a generally safe color. The rest of the level is purple, which compliments the green of the Yorps nicely.

It's important to point out that there is never a stretch of ground along the bottom of the level that the player can walk for an entire screen's length and not see some sort of background tile--a red mountain, grey mountain, landmark, or Pat-Pat. This helps give a feeling of progress.

If I had to come up with one negative thing about this level, it would be the lack of landmarks/detail tiles along the two stretches of red ornamented platforms at the top of the level. Having just ONE tile different on each stretch would be nice. :)
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CommanderSpleen
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Post by CommanderSpleen »

I really love this level. Not only is it a great introduction for all the reasons that Xky pointed out, but also for its overall structure.

Some nice things that jump out:
- Two different routes to the exit. Well, one and a half at least.
- Option of backtracking to collect extra points, but not necessary to complete the level.
- Non-lethal challenges offering bonus points (which also help teach jumping skills).

The Pepsi can at the end is as good as unavoidable, though, resulting in some points that are not representative of a player's skill or initiative (unless playing in point-avoidance mode).
Xky wrote:It's important to point out that there is never a stretch of ground along the bottom of the level that the player can walk for an entire screen's length and not see some sort of background tile--a red mountain, grey mountain, landmark, or Pat-Pat. This helps give a feeling of progress.
Wow, that is a good point that I'd not noticed before, and ties in with my favourite level design topic: progression. Though I've mostly been thinking of it in terms of functional coherence, in which level components tie together to tell a story. Considering it from an aesthetic perspective has me thinking about how to use this better.
Xky wrote:If I had to come up with one negative thing about this level, it would be the lack of landmarks/detail tiles along the two stretches of red ornamented platforms at the top of the level.
I think it would make it seem too mechanical to do that. Empty space can be as powerful as throwing in a background. Though, those platforms kind of count as decoration, don't they?

I wonder... is there any pattern to where background details show up throughout the rest of the levels?
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Post by shikadi »

the first time i played keen i dindt know sga exist, i coulndt read those yorps and vorti elder messages cause i couldnt read in english. therefore i also never found out about the chain (we had an hard time passing the last level) or the secret level untill about a year ago when i read all those things in keen wiki.

when i first played keen1 i had so much difficulties passing this level, those pat pat the you first meet killed me 50% of the time because i dindt master controls and the yorp pushes me in, bad combination for an intro level.

if i dindt die on that, then because i still dindt master control i almost never was able to jump over those spike, because of the fact that its on a hill and a gap in the hill made it hard for me as an beginner to pass it.
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Post by Benvolio »

I think it would make it seem too mechanical to do that.
my thoughts exactly...

otherwise, what xky and spleen said pretty much covers it!

Growing up in a household where electronic entertainment was sparse - my dad's attitude being "if you want games, go write them yourself", level 1 of keen1 was probably in the top 5 experiences of the first decade of my life, and i couldn't really fault the level for anything. I got the game on a 5 1/4 floppy from a magazine, with a screengrab on the front, and i was dissapointed when i entered the map, that it wasn't a platformer, til i tried to 'jump over' level one!
hard time passing the last level
yeah i didnt cop on to the rope for a while either... but i increased my gaming skills considerably in the process of running under the block and dodging the vorticon commander. of course, the first time i got through i forgot to get the everclear because it was on the other side of the exit... aargh!!!
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Post by levellass »

It took me about 5 minutes to figure out you could get up top of the Vorticon... after that, things happened fast.
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Post by CommanderSpleen »

Benvolio wrote:i was dissapointed when i entered the map, that it wasn't a platformer, til i tried to 'jump over' level one!
XD
shikadi wrote:i dindt master controls and the yorp pushes me in, bad combination for an intro level.
Hmm, that is a good point. It isn't really a game for an absolute beginner who's never played a game before. Though it is nice that the hazards don't enter the picture until a few screens in.

Which reminds me of the idea we came up with some time ago at the PCKF, IIRK, to create a Keen mod aimed at youngsters, with no hazards and plenty to explore without getting stuck.

Edit:
Oh, and something else that was unique to the first episode: every level can be completed without the pogo. Except for the whiskey level, where one pogo jump is required, resulting in an interesting puzzle, having to find the pogo, if you didn't collect it from the dome earlier in the game.
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Post by levellass »

Me: Hmmm... arrows work... right. No up or down? Pity. What jumps...? Shift... no... enter...no... space.... no... ARGAH! Stupid green thing! Aaah! Ctrl! So alt shoots...? No??? Let's try a systematic search... Oh! alt + ctrl works... strange. It should be alt.

*Many levels later*

Gah! What's happening? I can't stop! What'd I do! No! Not the pit!
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Post by XkyRauh »

Hahaha. When I first got Keen1, it was bundled on as a promotional attachment to the complete Crystal Caves series.

Now, in Crystal Caves, Milo will stop walking as soon as you release the arrow--a full, complete stop. Keen, on the other hand, takes nearly a full tile to decelerate from running speed. In Crystal Caves, Milo will jump as soon as you press the jump button--useful for getting out of the way fast. Keen, on the other hand, has to crouch down and wind up for his jump.

First couple times I played Keen1, I felt like the controls were just plain sloppy. :) It wasn't until I got Keen6, then 4 and 5, that I became a Keener, and then I went back and explored 1-3 to get the full scoop.

It's funny, because when I was younger I thought 4-6 were the better games, but after modding the Vorticons trilogy, I like the first games so much more...
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Post by Tulip »

I feel similar now concerning the Vorticons and Galaxy games.

Crystal Caves is a great game when it comes to leveldesign I think.
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Post by XkyRauh »

Derail about Crystal Caves: I think a large part of what made the level design FEEL solid was that there were so many gimmicks. Reverse Gravity, Low Gravity, Falling Rocks, etc. There were enough gameplay changes that the player was kept busy adapting. :)

Back to Keen: All levels should have SOME way to die in them.
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Post by Ceilick »

I guess I'll be our devil's advocate :P

I'ver never liked the trail to the first book. In fact, I'm nto sure if I've ever even tried to get that book either because a. books don't make attractive point items, or b. because the trail is just too long and too not worth the time. A better place for that book, I think, would be up on the top red platform next to the up and left of that first yorp up there.

The same goes for the Pizza slice; i'm not sure i've ever backtracked to get that. I'd consider having the way up to that second platform on the left, as an alternate route to the finish instead of a backtrack trail.

Don't like the 'jump to pat pats for a book' deal either. Maybe for 6 sodas I'd do it. I'd prefer to see one of those pat pats removed and replace with a pitfall, preferably the first one.

All that that said, i do like this level. I always get those five lollipops to begin with, avoiding the yorp. That 'room' with the lolli and the raygun is a great little 'fire time player' arena. The next room has a couple of pat pats. The next spot has a pair of yorps, which can easily be annoying but any 'skilled' player can easily avoid.
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Post by levellass »

When I got Keen 1 (After getting Keen 6, 4 and dreams) I was amazingly disappointed; it just looked so... blank, so empty, so simple. I never modded it, but helped on a few of LL's projects, and they're contagious. I still wouldn't say I like them as much as 4-6, but they've grown on me.

I'ver never liked the trail to the first book.
Tush! Spelling mistake! As far as I've seen, Keener's are item-mad, they try to get ALL the candy. (Come to think of it, maybe this is why all the items in 4-6 ARE candy, to make us want to get them all?)
Derail about Crystal Caves: I think a large part of what made the level design FEEL solid was that there were so many gimmicks. Reverse Gravity, Low Gravity, Falling Rocks, etc. There were enough gameplay changes that the player was kept busy adapting. :)
That's very true, though to me it got a bit annoying. This si why I hope to have high-pogo levels in Keen 5 some day.
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Fleexy
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Post by Fleexy »

Here's the second level:

Image

My notes:
  • No ways to die
  • The message in this level is not very helpful
  • No background items
  • No collectibles
Questions:
  • Should you be able to die?
  • Is this level pointless (literally)? The Yorp message is depressing/taunting and there's no scenery or collectibles
  • Should there be at least a few LOLLIPOPS?!
Me not like this level. Image
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Tulip
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Post by Tulip »

This is indeed relatively pointless. But being dark and having the first statue the player will most likely encounter, this level has a certain gloomy atmosphere that is distinct from the first level. It sets the mood for the other dome levels to come. Therefore it's good as is.
Lollipops certainly wouldn't fit in this setting, maybe a book, but on the other hand you couldn't die, so consequently there are no rewards.
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