Keen 4 - killing Bounder should kill Kill as well

Request patches for Keens 4-6.
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SupFanat
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Keen 4 - killing Bounder should kill Kill as well

Post by SupFanat »

If you want the Commander Keen Universe to be not that violent, you might want to write such patch that killing Bounder "just for fun" causes Keen to die as well.

So Keen would have to respect the right of Bounder to life. :)
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troublesomekeen
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Post by troublesomekeen »

My gosh. Sir. I beg your pardon. This is ridiculous.
We did see patches like this for Keen 10, Mirror Menace.

But there's no point and no time to make patches "just for fun" for mods that will never exist. It's pointless. You want to make changes to a game--changes that the creators never intended. The player has the freedom stun harmless creatures or to let them alone. A game that punishes the player for something as trivial as stunning a Bounder would be a terrible, idiotic game indeed.

Besides, it's rather comical to stun the bounder. This is entirely rubbish, SupFanat. Get it together.
SupFanat
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Post by SupFanat »

Is this patch really so stupid?
There's a patch which creates "deadly bouncing soda bottle". Is there any example of level which uses it?
There's a patch which makes it possible to shoot Skypests dead (and they get the white rings of stars unlike the original game)
There's also a patch which allows Keen to make Vitalin from Robo Red by pogoing about it.
Are there any uses for these patches?
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troublesomekeen
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Post by troublesomekeen »

Shooting Skypests is a very useful patch and is used in a number of mods, including the Ocflore Demo.

There's no purpose for patches that do not serve a purpose in mods that don't exist. What's the good of patches without a game/mod?

Yes, there are many crazy patches that do seemingly impractical things, but realize the context. Young keeners breaking through new territory, inventing new ways to manipulate the game, trying to show fellow keeners the potential of patches, what could be done and what limitations there are.
SupFanat
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Post by SupFanat »

That's OK but why can't such patch find any use?
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troublesomekeen
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Post by troublesomekeen »

Because the repercussion does not make sense, although perhaps I am misunderstanding you. What exactly are you proposing? A levelpack of Keen 4 without any graphical changes to kill and frustrate the player who may accidentally fire an errant shot at a bounder? How would Keen die from killing a bounder? Does the bounder have a magical aftermath energy that kicks Keen out of the level? Does Benny the Bookworm float out of the woodwork to take Keen away? Do the Korath police force Keen to lose a life when a bounder is killed?

What madness is this?
SupFanat
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Post by SupFanat »

It would make the game more difficult. The player would have to watch out to kill some creatures but not others. And if someone likes more difficult game - why not?

Without changing game code there's another possibility to make it necessary to avoid killing of some creatures. A level can be so designed that it's impossible to reach some area without using Bounder. So killing Bounder would mean getting stuck. For example, it can be used to reach some pole in great height (too tall to jump without Bounder but reachable with Bounder) or to overcome fire (the only hazard in Keen 4 which can be crossed this way).
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MoffD
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Post by MoffD »

Interestingly I was thinking it would be funny to make a mod that had all enemies tweaked into being harder (I.E. faster movement/shots on everything) and this would work well for that. The only problem is it was just an idea and I'm not sure if I'll make it later or not.

I kinda agree with TK, if there's not a specific use at the current moment, there's not much point in spending time trying to mess around with patching to try and get it working.

If you have a specific use for it in a mod, I'd be interested to see it. ;)
SupFanat
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Post by SupFanat »

A mood with need to watch out not to kill some creature is harder than original game as well.
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troublesomekeen
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Post by troublesomekeen »

Oh, well, if the Bounder was replaced with something like a bomb or some other explosive device, that'd be good.
The player needs a visible cue--something to tell you "Hey! If you shoot this, you die!" A bounder doesn't tell the player that. A bomb might.

Even then, this whole idea is kind of shady. How does NOT shooting something increase difficulty? If you want to make a hard mod, take a look at Terror from Outer Space. That mod uses many playful patches that make enemies die in different ways and under specific conditions.
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Malvineous
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Post by Malvineous »

Crystal Caves does it by having an air generator you have to avoid shooting or the player suffocates. Although the trick there is that it *doesn't* move, so it's easy to forget about it and hit it when you are shooting at something else.
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MoffD
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Post by MoffD »

I can't think of all the times I shot an air vent in CC with a misplaced shot and went into a rage.

Eventually I just started getting paranoid of them and would only fire if I could clearly see the wall. It definitely adds difficulty and intersting gameplay elements.
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