BUILDING QUESTION: Those bridges in Keen 1.. :)

Request patches for Keens 1-3.
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grelphy
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Post by grelphy »

Just so you know, I've fixed the problem with Bridgecalc. There's now a newer version that I'm working an that will also do the reverse operation - converting a bridge sprite into coords, but that's not finished yet.

For those who are really interested, I forgot a period, so that rather than using the Y coordinate for the bridge location, it was using an empty variable...

Once again, Bridgecalc is available at http://grelphy.spatang.com/bridgecalc.zip
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Post by KeenRush »

There's now a newer version that I'm working an that will also do the reverse operation - converting a bridge sprite into coords, but that's not finished yet.
That's quite a nice feature! :)
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levellord
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Post by levellord »

Okay, before some else discovers them here are four bridge tricks I've discovered:

1.) A bridge can go past the level edge, it will continue one row down on the opposite side of the level. (To do this remove the odd tiles surrounding the level and replace them with the same tile type that your bridge is overwriting, this must be done on BOTH sides of the level.)
Not too impressive, but a bridge at the end of a level can appear to be trivial when it has just opened a big bonus area at the start.

2.)A bridge block can replace a 'kills' tile, or a row of them (Even if they're animated.)
Useful if you want someone to click a switch before going somewhere.

3.)A bridge can be made to go in reverse (right to left) if it has a different tile in front of it but a row of identical tiles behind it. (Like this XXXX (bridge) O.)
The bridge will move UP one row if it leaves the level edge, useful for adding an interesting twist to a level.

4.)If a bridge begins at the end of a line of PRE-EXISTING bridge tiles,
(Like this BBBB(Bridge)XXXX)
it will behave normally when the switch is pressed, (i.e the row of bridge tiles will get longer.) but when the switch is pressed AGAIN the entire row of bridge tiles will dissappear, even those that weren't made by the bridge.
Useful for 'dissapearing' floors.
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Post by KeenRush »

Wow - those are awesome! Definitely add more interesting things for the bridge using!
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JosephBurke
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yeah

Post by JosephBurke »

woohoo! :o
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levellord
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Post by levellord »

Seven new tricks:

1.)Make the bridge building block a key door, or points, then a switch can provide a key to exit the level or a bonus.

2.)A bridge placed out of sight off the bottom of the level can make a deadly cliff passable without any visible change.

3.)Three words. Invisible bridge tile.

4.)Bridge tiles that function as background can inactivate a key, door or enemy that you must pass.

5.)A bridge tile that is blocking from above and functions as a switch itself can be used to put a tile over a sprite on background so that it becomes a switch. (It's hard to make a tile look like a bridge and switch though.)

6.)A bridge tile that looks exactly the same as a 'kills' tile can 'deactivate' an enemy when a switch is hit without detection.

7.)Make bridges out of points you can stand on; (Like the coke in Keen 2) use the bridge then get the points.
Last edited by levellord on Sat Jan 31, 2004 2:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
KeenRush
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Post by KeenRush »

Nice tricks!
Three words. Invisible bridge tile.
Very good idea - I can already see nice secret areas using this possibility.. :)
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XkyRauh
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re: Building Bridges, Breaking Barriers

Post by XkyRauh »

Cool as many of these level-editing possibilites are, there's something to be said for presentation. :-)

Code: Select all

About switches and bridges:

It's perfectly acceptable for you to design a level with, say, invisible bridge tiles that need to be toggled to cross a pit and advance in the game.  It's of course going to be fun for YOU to play, because you immediately know the 'correct' route to take to avoid danger and make everything easy.  

If you have a friend in the room playtesting it for you, it'll probably be fun for THEM, too, because they'll have you right there to hint at the bridge, hint at a bad idea, or to otherwise provide body language revealing when something tricky is at work. 

To the rest of us who download the mod, however, we have no knowledge of these invisible bridge tiles.  We don't know what direction to go in first.  We don't even know where the exit is!  When you design your mod, you need to keep us informed.  Be it in your help file, in your story text, the Yorp statue messages, or a sign on the wall in SGA... you need to let the player know what's going on.  
Point in case, I was working on a level for my Keen2 mod involving a half-dozen switches in various parts of the level. Because I'm the designer, I know that flipping the top-most switch activates a bridge two screens down that traps some of the Vorti-kid equivalents in a pit. When I play the level, I flip the switch without thinking.

However, my playtesting friend had no idea what the switch was for. To him, he entered the level, fell down a short distance, and was presented with an unlabelled switch with no onscreen effect. That's VERY discouraging, especially when it happens 5 other times in the level, and he told me so.

Code: Select all

Look at Keen6:

Every switch is labelled with a simple "U" or "D" as a recommended setting.  Sometimes you can fool around and discover certain switches don't NEED to follow their labels (Bloogfoods) but for the most part, if a switch says "U," you flip it up.
Getting back to the invisible-bridge issue, some sort of background cue would be fantastic. Be it a sign near the switch that says "Trust the [name of your 500 point item here]" and then a few of said item are laid out where the bridge is once the switch is flipped. Or something less subtle, like a help-box that says "HEY! Did you know..."

A creative writing teacher once told me that "the most important part of telling a story is learning to tell secrets." I think that applies directly to level design. You've got to give your player enough to go on without holding their hand. :-)

--Xky
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levellord
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Post by levellord »

Indeed a few good points. Putting information in the story file makes sure that players will actually READ your story, or your help file fo that matter.

Placing items in a jump pattern over a 'pit' is a good hint that you can get them. Also in Keen 1 hint statues abound. (A hidden statue that tells you say "The green switches will destroy the dangers of pitfalls." would be an idea.)

I find that a tile that looks like background with just one pixel that flashes will quickly draw a players attention.
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Post by Fleexy »

MultiMania wrote: I got it working, also the switch doesn't animate. :(
levelass's patch is wrong. It should look like this:

%patch $36DB $xxx #This tile when flipped becomes...
%patch $36E0 $yyy #This tile

xxx=first tile number in standard hexadecimal
yyy=second tile number in standard hexadecimal

And if you use Mindbelt you don't have to calculate the switch sprite. Just use the link tool. Same with the in-level teleporter.

Hope this helps,
--Fleexy
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Post by ckguy »

More epic bumpage, this one of a nearly five-year-old topic!

I did have fun reading LL sneaky bridge things, though.
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