Keen2: Elder Messages Problem

Request patches for Keens 1-3.
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XkyRauh
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Keen2: Elder Messages Problem

Post by XkyRauh »

It's been documented before that in Keen2, Keen need but bump his head "just so" on the 'shiny' blocks to trigger the Vorticon Elder messages, regardless of level or location... what I'd like to know is Why this happens, and Is there any way to patch / tileinfo a fix for this?

If not, it won't be too hard to go back and just swap out those bricks for some other random solids (I've got free bricks) but I think it would be a help to Keen2 modders in general if there's a fix found for this! :-)

--Xky
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Post by KeenRush »

I can't understand what do you mean.. :o
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levellord
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Post by levellord »

That this happens is due to two facts; yhe first is that Keen can throught some tricky jumping enter a solid block. (And thus jump through a roof)

Normally this doesn't cause any problems, but certain tiles in Keen 2 are somehow hardcoded with the message tiles. (In Keen 1 using tileinfo I made a solid block behave like this.)

When this tile is entered by Keen it behaveslike a message tile. Using tileinfo to make the tile a background tile will cause it to behave like a message popup.

The message will be blank unless you are one of the two levels meant to have vorticon elders in them. Perhaps you would like a patch that would allow messages on all levels (See http://durdin.net/andy/keen/modding/vie ... 757e6106c3 )
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XkyRauh
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re: KeenRush

Post by XkyRauh »

Alright, KeenRush: open your Keen2 2TIL0000.bmp and look about 2/3 of the way down, right next to the Bean-with-Bacon Megarocket... you see those Cyan bricks that are "shiny" and the single Green, Red, and Magenta ones next to it? Use your level editor and put one of those in a place that's easy to knock your head on... Now go into the game, stand underneath it, and start jumping / pogoing into the underside of it. Before long, you'll get a dialogue box (if you're in Level10.ck2, it'll be the Vorticon Elder's message about "Do not shoot them, human.") and you'll be asked to Press Enter. After you hit enter, the brick will disappear!

This is a big issue for me in my Keen2 mod, because I have constructed a large part of my Level10.ck2 out of these bricks--and by exploiting the message glitch (intentionally or not) it's possible to clip through ceilings and stuff. Bad news for me :-)

If there's no easy way to patch this out, I can just swap the graphics for these bricks to some of the other avaliable solids--I've got plenty. It's just something I think should be investigated... much like the way Keen interacts with locked Doors.

--Xky
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JosephBurke
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This is what is seems.

Post by JosephBurke »

It happens if the tile is set to have a message pop up.

http://lastplain.com/keen_pics/temp/popup_msg.jpg

You'll have to change the tileset properties using tileinfo to fix it.

It's possible that some of the tiles are hard coded with this property, as levellord said, I don't know though...

How and why does it happen? Jump up into a shiny block and turn on your pogostick, a message will come up. This happens because the pogo sprite is taller than the jumping sprite, when you turn on your pogostick so close to an object Keen's bounding box overlays the blocks' bounding box activating the message.

http://lastplain.com/keen_pics/temp/short_tall.jpg

Which bring up an alternatively to changing the tileset properties, make all sprites the same height, bounding box wise that is. There won't be any possible overlap that way. ;)
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levellord
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Post by levellord »

Sorry! no hardcoding (I just wrecked my tileinfo, curse my stupidiousness.)

However I suppose the blocks could be put to work as 'doors'that give you a message when destroyed.
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Post by KeenRush »

Ah, cheers Xky and Joseph (I always write Forge and then I have to erase it!)! Now I got it..
However I suppose the blocks could be put to work as 'doors'that give you a message when destroyed.
I guess so, at least that's possible with those statues of yorps and gargs in Keen 1. :)
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XkyRauh
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re: Joseph

Post by XkyRauh »

Aah! Joseph, you rule! Ironically enough, I'd just noticed the change in hitbox size about 20 minutes before I read your post, but had never made the connection to the Message Popup things... either way, since TileInfo is not one of my favorite things, it looks like I'll just be changing a couple of collision boxes! :-D

Thanks very much for the rapid reply, guys!

--Xky
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