Modding Keen:Modding

Anything related to Keen Modding.
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Ceilick
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Modding Keen:Modding

Post by Ceilick »

It seems to me that certain sections of Keen:Modding are a little...dated and unorganized. I've got some suggestions for improvement, and I hope people will offer their own suggestions.

Forum Revision: I feel that the "modding: Talk" section and the "Moddings: Tools" section are in need of some work.

Modding Talk:

"The Mods" should be revised to be releases only. There are many topics within that section which refer to incomplete mods or just modding ideas. I feel this forum would be better suited to actual game releases (Full releases and Demo/betas). All non-release posts would be moved to the "general" forum.

"General" should be basically what it is now. General questions about Keen modding, mods ideas, feedback for specific mods in progress, etc.

"Modding Theory" A proposed new subforum specifically talking about the graphical and level design aspect of mods in general. Specific mods should only be used as examples in this forum, ie, threads should not be started to help benefit any specific mod (these kinds of threads would belong in the "general" section). Why differentiate this forum from the "general" forum? Because there is a lot of modding wisdom that is buried in the general section which should not be lost; it is timeless modding wisdom which deserves easier access. All threads of this nature currently located in the "General" section would be moved here.

"Keen Coding" Should remain as Xky outlined it, "a place to discuss file formats, assembly language, utility compilation and tool development."

"Keen Community Mod" Should remain as a development forum for the Community Mod.

The Patch request forums seem okay as is.

Modding Tools:

Sections for: KeenWright, Keen Make-Over, KeenEdit, iKeen, and the Patch-o-Tron sections are no longer needed. In addition, TileInfo should probably be replaced with Dr. Kylestein's Tileset Tool. Ck456Tli needs to be updated to Ckd456Tli. CKPatch needs to be updated to indicate KDRPatch is availible.

We need new utility subforums for: KeenWave, KeenGraph, The Omegamatic, The Neural Stunner, and StarText.

In addition, we may need an "Miscelaneous Utilities" section which would provide links for and be an area to discuss other utilities used by modders (presumably less discussion is required for these than other utilities, at least for now): fin2bmp (do we still use this?), WDC, IMFCreator, K5Splode, Unlzexe, TheDraw, old level editors (keenwright, keen make-over, keenedit, ikeen, The Photachyon Tranceiver), TSMusic, and KeenFX. In addition, all the old threads about the old editors can be moved to this section if their content warrants keeping.

Lastly, we need to make sure all the download links for tools are up-to-date and still work.

What do you guys think?
Last edited by Ceilick on Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Draik
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Post by Draik »

We could probably use a forum for lemm's V2 set.
I mean, that thing's crazy. More people should be using it.
levellass
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Post by levellass »

I'm sure people are. Certainly I have a mod 90% done using it.

I like Ceilick's suggestions and second all of them, though I wonder if modding theory could also contain mods in development, suggestions for improvements and patches to use maybe, a place for beginning (and not so beginning) modders to ask for advice and ideas.
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Ceilick
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Post by Ceilick »

...I...have no idea what V2 is :0 This is why we need forum revision!
though I wonder if modding theory could also contain mods in development, suggestions for improvements and patches to use maybe, a place for beginning (and not so beginning) modders to ask for advice and ideas.
I'd like to exclude these from a "modding theory" category since their inclusion seems like it would essentially make 'modding theory' equatable to the existing 'general' category.

I'd envision modding theory containing threads like:

http://www.keenmodding.org/viewtopic.php?t=79
http://www.keenmodding.org/viewtopic.php?t=358
http://www.keenmodding.org/viewtopic.php?t=334

While the general section would contain threads like:

http://www.keenmodding.org/viewtopic.php?t=120
http://www.keenmodding.org/viewtopic.php?t=1445
http://www.keenmodding.org/viewtopic.php?t=648

I think modding theory would involve modding advise and tips abstract from any specific mod, unless using specific mods as an example (the threads that analyze the level design in Yorphius II might belong here). Modding theory might also involve discussion on just what can be done in any particular episode of keen (a discussion devoted to discussing anything and everything that can be modded in keen 4, for example). Certainly specific mods will benefit from these discussions, but the focus of discussion wouldn't be on any particular mod.

The general forum would have discussion threads specific to individual projects and their graphics, level design, story, patching, etc.
Mink
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Post by Mink »

Modding theory sounds like a fun new forum.

However, there are a lot of subforums right now, and there'd still be a lot after this proposed revision. What about a Level Editors one that encompasses both Vorticons and Galaxy Editors, or there could be separate Vorticons Level Editors and Galaxy Level editors subforums. Do we really need a separate section for each editor, especially when a fair share of them are only used very rarely?

And then there could be a Patching Utilities one for CKPatch and related programs (like Startext - if it is decided to go the route of dedicated subforum for each utility, the Neural Stunner doesn't really warrant one because Startext has surpassed it in terms of number of features), Audio Editors, Graphic Extractors, and Misc. Perhaps this isn't ideal since it might make it harder to find topics about a specific ultility, it would sure cut down on the number of subforums with only five topics.
lemm
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Post by lemm »

If sub-sub-forums are allowed, this my opinion on restructuring:

Code: Select all

The Mods
General
Theory
CKCM
Coding

Vorticons
-  Patches
   -  Utilities / Patch Discussion+Request
   -  Keen 1
   -  Keen 2
   -  Keen 3
-  Map + Tileinfo
-  Graphics
-  Sound
-  Other Utilities


Galaxy
-  Patches
   -  Utilities / Patch Discussion+Request
   -  Dreams
   -  Keen 4
   -  Keen 5
   -  Keen 6
-  Map + Tileinfo
-  Graphics
-  Sound
-  Other Utilities


Perhaps stickies/subforums for each separate utility.
levellass
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Post by levellass »

No Keen Dreams love?
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Tulip
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Post by Tulip »

Good ideas here, and again we need andy to do his friggin update now, as with phpbb2 the subforums aren't possible yet. I need to nag him more, it seems.
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Ceilick
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Post by Ceilick »

Lemm's forum outline looks the best to me.

For each section, such as "map + Tileinfo", "Graphics", "Sound", and "Other Utilities", I presume we would have links for the tools (a sticky thread), development threads for those tools still being worked on (only one development thread per tool to keep things concise and organized), and troubleshooting threads for the various tools used in that category.

Grouping Keen Dreams with Keen Galaxy seems the way to go, since many of the tools are the same.
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XkyRauh
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Post by XkyRauh »

I'll poke around and see what I can do about this in early February 2011. I agree that we need to revise what we've got here.

Please continue to post information about what is obsolete and needs to be locked/removed/modified.
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Fleexy
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Post by Fleexy »

KMO and Patch-o-Tron are so obsolete that their forums could be deleted.
Draik
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Post by Draik »

This has been mentioned.
Ceilick wrote:Sections for: KeenWright, Keen Make-Over, KeenEdit, iKeen, and the Patch-o-Tron sections are no longer needed.
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Fleexy
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Post by Fleexy »

Oops, guess I should read more carefully...
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XkyRauh
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Post by XkyRauh »

When I administer things, I can outright delete the sections, or I can lock them such that no new posts can take place. Which are we advocating?
Draik
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Post by Draik »

tbh, I think some of the older tool sections can be deleted outright. Leaving them there, locked or otherwise, potentially suggests to new users that these are viable tools (and some of them really aren't, especially in this brave new world of V2). Some of them have articles over at the KeenWiki for historical reference.
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