Atmosphere
- CommanderSpleen
- Posts: 1017
- Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 12:11 pm
- Location: The Land of Sparkly Things
- Contact:
Atmosphere
I was thinking this morning about the first Mario episode and suddenly remembered exactly what it was like to first play such games, including Keen4. I still can't pinpoint exactly what it is, but I know that a mod that can reproduce it is definitely a good mod.
As yet I'm still to see a mod that actually successfully manages it. I was completely awestruck by Xky's KeenX, in particular, but it didn't quite have that atmosphere of 'newness'.
Maybe a sense of unpredictability... vastness beyond comprehension. A lack of patterns--new stuff. Playing the first few levels of Keen4, one would never guess what is yet to come, and that keeps the player 'whelmed'... not quite underwhelmed, not quite overwhelmed... just whelmed. When the land feels alive, rather than just a bunch of tiles and level locations, that's when it feels right.
When I played KeenX, while I played it agape just at the graphics for the first few levels, there was little sense of a living map (well, first off there was, what with the novel entry screen and all--but after that it felt more or less like randomly scattered levels.
Yorphius II almost managed this effect with its rather spacious map level. And the gaping vines certainly kept the ... Aha!
Alienation. Alienate the player from the world he/she's playing in, and there you'll find the mystical gaming experience. Perhaps. It seems the case, though... after all, that's what Commander Keen's all about--aliens... and making the player feel like they're visiting an alien planet or spacecraft and are a long way from home... there's the magic.
So, it seems... at every turn, remind the player 'you're not in Kansas any more!' When a level starts to feel too comfortable, put something in that makes the player think, 'Wait... I've never seen that at home before...'
Such things are abundant in the Commander Keen series, but they wear off after time. Still, their presence is an immense element in the gaming experience.
Even little mysteries like the scuba gear, the sandwich, Miragia, that damn pyramid with the path leading to it that Keen can't quite walk through (before I quite grasped the concept that Keen4 used a tile-based map, I tried doing so many times)... things that keep the player from getting their mind around the entire game in one go--there's always that element of 'something's missing' right up until the end... when finally the Wizard of Oz is found to be a fraud ... but it doesn't matter.
And then indeed little details that are missed the first time, and maybe even the fiftieth time around... when they're finally spotted, a glint of that original atmosphere returns, and for a moment, the game is anew.
That's what I'm in this community to recreate... again and again, hopefully: That same atmosphere that made me a die-hard fan of Commander Keen all those years ago.
Indeed, now that I have a few techniques up my sleeve, perhaps my own mod will now have that little extra element that says: Keep guessing.
>Commander Spleen
As yet I'm still to see a mod that actually successfully manages it. I was completely awestruck by Xky's KeenX, in particular, but it didn't quite have that atmosphere of 'newness'.
Maybe a sense of unpredictability... vastness beyond comprehension. A lack of patterns--new stuff. Playing the first few levels of Keen4, one would never guess what is yet to come, and that keeps the player 'whelmed'... not quite underwhelmed, not quite overwhelmed... just whelmed. When the land feels alive, rather than just a bunch of tiles and level locations, that's when it feels right.
When I played KeenX, while I played it agape just at the graphics for the first few levels, there was little sense of a living map (well, first off there was, what with the novel entry screen and all--but after that it felt more or less like randomly scattered levels.
Yorphius II almost managed this effect with its rather spacious map level. And the gaping vines certainly kept the ... Aha!
Alienation. Alienate the player from the world he/she's playing in, and there you'll find the mystical gaming experience. Perhaps. It seems the case, though... after all, that's what Commander Keen's all about--aliens... and making the player feel like they're visiting an alien planet or spacecraft and are a long way from home... there's the magic.
So, it seems... at every turn, remind the player 'you're not in Kansas any more!' When a level starts to feel too comfortable, put something in that makes the player think, 'Wait... I've never seen that at home before...'
Such things are abundant in the Commander Keen series, but they wear off after time. Still, their presence is an immense element in the gaming experience.
Even little mysteries like the scuba gear, the sandwich, Miragia, that damn pyramid with the path leading to it that Keen can't quite walk through (before I quite grasped the concept that Keen4 used a tile-based map, I tried doing so many times)... things that keep the player from getting their mind around the entire game in one go--there's always that element of 'something's missing' right up until the end... when finally the Wizard of Oz is found to be a fraud ... but it doesn't matter.
And then indeed little details that are missed the first time, and maybe even the fiftieth time around... when they're finally spotted, a glint of that original atmosphere returns, and for a moment, the game is anew.
That's what I'm in this community to recreate... again and again, hopefully: That same atmosphere that made me a die-hard fan of Commander Keen all those years ago.
Indeed, now that I have a few techniques up my sleeve, perhaps my own mod will now have that little extra element that says: Keep guessing.
>Commander Spleen
- JosephBurke
- Posts: 94
- Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:51 pm
Here's another thing that levels should have. Things that have no purpose whatsoever.
Sounds strange, I know, but think about it. In Keen 4, you get into the first level, and immediately you're greeted by trees with eyes! Those trees have no purpose whatsoever, but try and imagine Keen 4 without them... they add a lot to the atmosphere. And in the Keen 4 caves, there are those little crevices in the walls where you see little tiny blinking eyes from a creature that never shows itself.
In Keen 5, the backgrounds almost dominated the game, with all of the piping and machinery that didn't do anything. In one of the levels in Keen 5, when you get to the part where you have to break the fuse, if you look down to the right, you see a coffee maker with the SGA words "Insert Coin". It serves no purpose, but you get a little feeling of delight discovering it.
Adding things that don't have to be there can make the game a lot more appealing.
Sounds strange, I know, but think about it. In Keen 4, you get into the first level, and immediately you're greeted by trees with eyes! Those trees have no purpose whatsoever, but try and imagine Keen 4 without them... they add a lot to the atmosphere. And in the Keen 4 caves, there are those little crevices in the walls where you see little tiny blinking eyes from a creature that never shows itself.
In Keen 5, the backgrounds almost dominated the game, with all of the piping and machinery that didn't do anything. In one of the levels in Keen 5, when you get to the part where you have to break the fuse, if you look down to the right, you see a coffee maker with the SGA words "Insert Coin". It serves no purpose, but you get a little feeling of delight discovering it.
Adding things that don't have to be there can make the game a lot more appealing.
- JosephBurke
- Posts: 94
- Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:51 pm
Simple stories work best for Keen games IMO, one general objective that's Keenish and a few creative tidbits and your set. In Keen3 you had to free the Vorticons and defeat Mort, it's simple and there's also the creative tidbits like having to get past the mangling machine. And in Bacteria Yuk a microscopic duplicate of Keen has to do battle inside Keens body against his cold; this story is a little stranger but it remains very simple and has a creative spin from the outset.
Which brings up another point, IMO the most important element for making a good game is not just good ideas but for these ideas to fit together as a seamless whole. The fine details of a game can be worked out later but a basic plot off of which everything is based should exist from the outset.
Foes should seem to be a part of the world their in, if you have a castle level, what kind of foes should be in it? For example you wouldn’t want a bunny rabbit, instead write down tons of ideas then take the best of them and start refining.
The later Keen games are like a cartoon or straight out of a children's book; one with aliens and all sorts of weird creatures that is. Staying true to the cartoon theme, I've noticed that all the creatures in the Keen games don't have excess detail like the background. Another thing to note here is that the background should be mellow to further this contrast.
Having good point items is very important IMO, and this will probably actually prove pretty hard.
Which brings up another point, IMO the most important element for making a good game is not just good ideas but for these ideas to fit together as a seamless whole. The fine details of a game can be worked out later but a basic plot off of which everything is based should exist from the outset.
Foes should seem to be a part of the world their in, if you have a castle level, what kind of foes should be in it? For example you wouldn’t want a bunny rabbit, instead write down tons of ideas then take the best of them and start refining.
The later Keen games are like a cartoon or straight out of a children's book; one with aliens and all sorts of weird creatures that is. Staying true to the cartoon theme, I've noticed that all the creatures in the Keen games don't have excess detail like the background. Another thing to note here is that the background should be mellow to further this contrast.
Having good point items is very important IMO, and this will probably actually prove pretty hard.
re: Atmosphere
perhaps it's more a question of expectation? Super Mario Bros. was a widespread success because it was something completely new... it surpassed expectation. Super Mario Sunshine, on the other hand, while still a good game, did not surpass many expectations.
SMB used a very sparse number of tiles (think about it... pipes are like 4 tiles, bricks, question blocks, mushroom tops are 3, mushroom stalks, grey bricks, black background, sky, a few cloud details... a cannon or two... what else is left?) ... this put pressure more on gameplay and level design. none of the graphics were particularly exciting--but they were arranged in such a way that you didn't have time to focus on things. mis a step here or a jump there, and mr. Goomba will eat you. the fact that you couldn't scroll backwards and had a rather strict time limit were additional factors there.
compare that to Commander Keen: Invasion of the Vorticons. a great deal more tiles, and as a result, a lot more visual expectations from mod-makers. gameplay is much slower-paced than SMB... there is no time limit, there are no scroll-blockers save for the level's edge, and there are only two enemies in the game who can kill you by direct touch. no power-ups, no point reward for fast reflexes... as a result of this slower gameplay, the player has much more time to sit around and stare down his environs--which makes the additional tiles all the more necessary!
compare even that to Commander Keen: Goodbye, Galaxy! the addition of perspective, secret areas, vanishing platforms, faster jumps, and enemies you can stand on drastically changed the gameplay. the gameplay is more hectic, but only in bursts. the graphics play an even larger role in keeping the player satisfied, because the blocky tile-based SMB has been around for years and years already--the bar of expectations has been raised again!
not to get too entirely redundant, but compare that to a new-age 3d platform game, like Super Mario Sunshine. Mario's given up his jump-to-kill abilities in favor of a new gimmick--the water pack--in order to keep himself 'interesting'. Granted, some of the level design was fantastic in SMS, but how many levels were there? 8? gameplay-wise, this one wore thin quickly.
i suppose the point of my post here is to say that the feeling of "new" is nearly impossible to capture in a mod. we've all played Keen1-3 before, we've beat them, we had nearly a decade to replay and disassemble and ultimately defeat these games. many of us know them close to inside-out. the only "new" that can be captured in a Keen mod is level design...
or is it?
already the Keen:Vorticons thread has been swamped with patch requests...
i've agreed with practically everything i've read in all these posts, and i feel like i'm ranting pointlessly... but something inside of me is a freakin' purist and kinda bummed that people aren't happy with graphical-and-level-changed mods anymore. every Keen mod released from here out is likely to contain some change that drastically upsets the gameplay... be it as little as my Keen2's pogo=0ammo to the very loopy teleporters-in-a-level... the original Keen games are all but dead.
--Xky
SMB used a very sparse number of tiles (think about it... pipes are like 4 tiles, bricks, question blocks, mushroom tops are 3, mushroom stalks, grey bricks, black background, sky, a few cloud details... a cannon or two... what else is left?) ... this put pressure more on gameplay and level design. none of the graphics were particularly exciting--but they were arranged in such a way that you didn't have time to focus on things. mis a step here or a jump there, and mr. Goomba will eat you. the fact that you couldn't scroll backwards and had a rather strict time limit were additional factors there.
compare that to Commander Keen: Invasion of the Vorticons. a great deal more tiles, and as a result, a lot more visual expectations from mod-makers. gameplay is much slower-paced than SMB... there is no time limit, there are no scroll-blockers save for the level's edge, and there are only two enemies in the game who can kill you by direct touch. no power-ups, no point reward for fast reflexes... as a result of this slower gameplay, the player has much more time to sit around and stare down his environs--which makes the additional tiles all the more necessary!
compare even that to Commander Keen: Goodbye, Galaxy! the addition of perspective, secret areas, vanishing platforms, faster jumps, and enemies you can stand on drastically changed the gameplay. the gameplay is more hectic, but only in bursts. the graphics play an even larger role in keeping the player satisfied, because the blocky tile-based SMB has been around for years and years already--the bar of expectations has been raised again!
not to get too entirely redundant, but compare that to a new-age 3d platform game, like Super Mario Sunshine. Mario's given up his jump-to-kill abilities in favor of a new gimmick--the water pack--in order to keep himself 'interesting'. Granted, some of the level design was fantastic in SMS, but how many levels were there? 8? gameplay-wise, this one wore thin quickly.
i suppose the point of my post here is to say that the feeling of "new" is nearly impossible to capture in a mod. we've all played Keen1-3 before, we've beat them, we had nearly a decade to replay and disassemble and ultimately defeat these games. many of us know them close to inside-out. the only "new" that can be captured in a Keen mod is level design...
or is it?
already the Keen:Vorticons thread has been swamped with patch requests...
i've agreed with practically everything i've read in all these posts, and i feel like i'm ranting pointlessly... but something inside of me is a freakin' purist and kinda bummed that people aren't happy with graphical-and-level-changed mods anymore. every Keen mod released from here out is likely to contain some change that drastically upsets the gameplay... be it as little as my Keen2's pogo=0ammo to the very loopy teleporters-in-a-level... the original Keen games are all but dead.
--Xky