Level Design

Discussion and analysis of graphics, story, levels, and so on.
Kdash
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Level Design

Post by Kdash »

What do you guys do when you get stuck designing a level (keen 2).
I can't seem to think of anything.
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Ceilick
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Post by Ceilick »

When i get stuck on one part of my mod, i start working on the other parts. If your stuck on the levels, try working on your tiles or sprites.
Kdash
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Post by Kdash »

Unfortunately, most of the graphics are done. What happens when theres nothing else?
Also, putting off levels isn't good. It makes me annoyed.
KeenRush
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Post by KeenRush »

There has never been a situation that I'd have all the other parts done and only levels left.. It's always other way around, too bad. :(
I haven't got stuck with level design, but I guess you could try to think something hard that people would have problems with, and make that. >:) Use elevators, switches, and scrubs.
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XkyRauh
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well...

Post by XkyRauh »

Try defining your levels differently. If you usually have one big box of a level with platforms scattered, switch to a room-and-hallway method. If you usually have long horizontal levels, switch to a vertical approach.

Define parts of your level by their backgrounds--put windows, columns, trees, caves, whatever change of scenery you can so that getting to a certain point in the level changes the player's perspective. Kinda like in Keen4, how you can play an entire level above ground, but go through a door to be in a cave. Catch the player off guard sometimes. :-)

If you usually cluster platforms in little 2-tiles-wide, symmetrical spreads, try making a cloud of asymmetrical little 1-shots, or 3- or 4-tiles-wide groups.

The biggest thing to keep in mind when designing the level is to think about what a new player is going to think when FIRST SEEING your area. Let people playtest your level in a place you can watch them play--see what they avoid, where their intuition takes them, where they tend to jump or not jump. And change your level accordingly.

Create, adapt, conquer. ;-) You can do it.
Kdash
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Post by Kdash »

what are the steps some of you take when designing levels?
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levellord
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Post by levellord »

When building a level

1.) Name the level; this defines in my mind what it is

2.) Outline the basic concepts; will it use those 1337 blue tiles I just did? What if I makle it a cave? Should I fill it with jump platforms?

3.) Build the basic stuff: Put in large tracts of dirt, roughly where the doors will be, and the exit, mark where I'll put say, lakes or buildings.

4.) Build the basic level; fill in all the detail, the level is now playable, but drab.

5.) Spruce it up!; Add those eye candy tiles, maybe redo small buts that still look a little dull.

6.) Beta test and check everything.


If I'm stuch with a big empty space:

1.) Can I use it for creative effect? Sometimes a level can be built around a big space, or it can be 'outside' and the rest of the level 'inside' Or a big space might just be left blank to capture attention

2.) Fil with a theme; say put a building/pile of rocks/brood vat, whatever, something to fill it up

3.) Scenery; put in some background or eyecandy tiles, make it the clearing in a forest say, or a park in a city, storage room in a lab, andso on.


When I'm stuch for level ideas:

1.) Fill the level with [nearly] every tile in your tileset; this will take a whole level as you desperately try to work them all together, but if done well the finnished level can be quite impressive.

2.) Look at your storyline and see if you can base a level on it. If Keens invading Morts labs, make say a genetics lab. If he's storming an army base, make a barracks, or ammunition range, and so on.

3.) Just don't build it; who needs 16 levels when 8 will do?

4.) Get someone else to do it

5.) Take someone elses level from their mod and paste it into your folder, then try to rebuild the level using your tiles. It will warp and twist as you try to figure out what it origionally looked like and as you twist it to suit your tileset.
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XkyRauh
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hehe

Post by XkyRauh »

Those are spot-on, LevelLord. I agree with everything.

A lot of times, I prefer to work with smaller levels, so I'll divide the space into "upper route / bottom route" or "left half / right half" and design accordingly.

Often times I'll place the exit in a level first, just arbitrarily choosing a location, and then choosing a place for the start. Then, it's just a matter of doodling a pseudo-path around the leftover space, tucking secrets in places where normal level won't fit, and adding dead-end routes to what's left. I really don't plan ahead in my level designs much, and I think it's gonna take some work to make my Keen4 levels interesting (Doors take a lot of planning!)

I've got a habit of putting things in groups of two--there's almost never a single point item all by itself in my levels. The only times I'll use single items are if they're higher point value, or spaced equally over single-tile-wide platforms. I like to use larger arcs of lower point value items. I try to fill space equally with points and with background items.
Benvolio
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Big levels, music, Keen2

Post by Benvolio »

For big levels I usually do one of the following:

1)Start in the upper left corner and make a passage to the upper right corner, then back to the left, zigzagging until I reach a bottom corner.

2)Start in the lower left corner and make a passage to the lower right corner, then back to the left, zigzagging until I reach a top corner.

3)Start in the upper left corner and make a passage to the upper right corner, then down to the bottom right corner, then continuing in a clockwise spiral until the centre is reached.

4)Layout the level at random, satisfying whatever cruel whim enters my ill mind (such as that long row of ice cannons in "Stopping The Skypest" that you're somehow supposed to pass under unscathed; actually it's quite easy to pass under - I've succeeded about twice)

If you're stuck with level making just put on some good music and you could obliviously, painlessly spend 6 hours non stop level editing a 120X120 masterpiece, and find yourself fully inspired and more creative than usual. There are various artists and albums I associate with each of my mods because of the amount of time I spent listening to them making the mods. Whereas a lot of work requires Bach or other complex classical music, modding seems to be compatible with every genre of music.

I always found Keen2 to be a very pleasant medium for level editing. I like the platforms and the Vorticon Elites' artificial intelligence. Keen2's levels are fun to play, whereas Keen3 levels are boring.
Name the level; this defines in my mind what it is
I did that in my first mod, but the result wasn't that pleasing, so I stopped doing that. I was full of idealism about a Keen4 world back than, but I gradually realised that the mod is actually a medium of art, not just a ritual of homage to the Commander Keen games.
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XkyRauh
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hehe

Post by XkyRauh »

Another thing to do is to "theme" your levels, in a limiting way. Something like "This level is going to be blue and red," or "This level isn't going to have any Bap-toads in it. (assuming one of your enemies is a Bap-toad...)" By creating a limited rules set for a level, you can challenge yourself to work around it.

For example, it's tempting for many Keen5 level packs to have a little Korath III native running around in the middle of the Omegamatic. But in the actual Keen5, those natives ONLY APPEAR IN THE SECRET LEVEL. That was a rule dictated by the plot of the game, and the level designers. You can make your own rules dictated by plot for your own mod. In XkyKeen3, the Spadlings were never found away from the rocky mountain tiles. :-) Etc, etc.

If your entire tileset has, say, 5 different styles of ground, never use more than two of them in a level. If you've always used the grey background with the brown tiles, try the blue background in one level, for a change of pace. Try to make different levels LOOK DIFFERENT, but also make sure you SPACE THINGS OUT. Nobody will want to play very far in your mod if level 1 has every single enemy, obstacle, trap, and tileset for the whole mod in it. :-) Save your tricky stuff for later.
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najawa
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Post by najawa »

Ah... levelmaking; the only reason I haven't compleated a mod ever...

Here's what I do, though, If I am bothering with lvl making:

1) Give keen a starting point

2) Give Keen an ending point

If you get stuck, start working from the other end, and make both ends meet.

One end: "Hello. my name is..."

...

I'm home sick... so I am not in the most alert of moods as of now...
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grelphy
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Post by grelphy »

The best advice I can give is to plan ahead. It's true, lot's of people build levels from scratch, in a level editor, but the perspective of being able to see an entire level laid out in front of you on a piece of graph paper is unique and empowering. You'll see things with such a large-scale view that you would never see from within the game or through a level editor. All of my very best levels were designed long before they were built.

A high level of detail is not neccesary when designing a level. I usually just put in solids, platforms, hazards and sprites; everything else is just eye candy. A bit of background sketching or labeling can make it easier to theme sections of the level; but, if it is well-designed, the theme of a given area should be obvious.

The only problem with laying out your levels first is that copying them into a level editor is an extreme annoyance. =)
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levellord
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Post by levellord »

Well, IKeen allows you to see all but the biggest levels all laid out in frnt of you.

I'm a diehard build it as you goer, but I usually have at least *some* parts of it preplanned, thats what makes my levels suck so much.
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Post by Benvolio »

Being a die-hard build-as you go-er is what makes my levels so... errrrm ...good. You gotta improvise, like modern jazz, yet return to the main theme i.e have an exit you can get to without cheating. Your levels gotta pack a punch, like rock'n'roll and you gotta have beauty in them, like classical music. Your levels gotta fit together like a good Irish trad polka or reel. What I mean is you've got to combine all these merits into a level, be creative, but not to the point of incoherence, and my advice is not to go in for the "if you can regularly jump over a 2 tile gap 60 times you can get 50 teddies" type design.

Alright that's my view of level editing. (I actually still occasionally add a touch to one of my mods with a view to eventually finishing them)
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Post by KeenRush »

I never plan my levels (and you can see that, hah), I just invent more and more when I'm building until it's done. When building I naturally make ideas that affect the whole level, so I'm not building "tile by tile".
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