Level Design and Keen

Discussion and analysis of graphics, story, levels, and so on.
xtraverse
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Post by xtraverse »

I'll keep that in mind when I get back to my mod (maybe a month or so) :P

And KeenRush, what was enjoyable about NY1? :D
Ilsoap
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Post by Ilsoap »

Building on my little "Theory of Unknowns", I think what makes a level enjoyable is not how many "unknowns" are in your level in total, but how many the player has to deal with at one time. If the player has to think "Where's the red key? Which direction do I go? Ack! Gotta avoid that garg, but I can't jump into that spike pit just ahead! etc." all at the same time, the player might get frustrated. Then, take the original Mario Bros. levels. You could only scroll the screen in one direction, and the goals were, in general, quite clear. Not only that, but with the level restrictions, adding tension was easy by just adding enemies that came from directions other than right-to-left.

Someone mentioned us getting philosophical about level design... that might be true. This whole "unknown" theory could be useful in a lot of other places.

Anyone else want me to analyze something? I'm on a roll! lol
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Post by KeenRush »

Good.. I can help if you need beta testing later xtra (or someone else). ;)

Probably I liked levels most, and the good idea of using something other than Keen in a mod. But still familiar character and "connected" to Keen story world. :)
Anyone else want me to analyze something?
Why some mod makers (=Spleen) want to make so hard and deadly levels and torture player before they get heart attack or something? Or why some level makers give player plenty of ammo, points and other stuff?
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XkyRauh
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re: Ilsoap and Norp

Post by XkyRauh »

xtra, I went back and played the Norp trilogy today... I liked the first one more than the second, and I couldn't get the third to run--kept giving me a TSR error.

The first one was very clear about what was solid, what was background, and what was a hazard. I never found myself asking "What killed me?" or even slowing down to study an upcoming piece of scenery--the same could not be said of Norp2.
I constantly found myself questioning a death (the mushrooms and brown water both appeared to me as background) and stopping to study an upcoming obstacle. The level design was certainly tighter in the sense that there weren't long hallways or extended periods of retracing one's footsteps--but the result was a knot of confusion.
I was looking forward to Norp3, but it refused to work for me. :-(

Ilsoap, here's something I'd like to hear you give your views on: How does the color of a background affect the overall 'feel' of a level?

Having played through "Norp1", "Norp2", "Bazooka Wowbagger", and "The 4 Golden Crystals" today, I effectively played games with 4 different backgrounds. Norp1 used mostly blue and black, Norp2 used dark Grey, Bazooka used dark Cyan, and 4GC used the traditional light Grey.
Speaking solely from those experiences, I can say that dark Grey feels extremely claustrophobic, blue very tight, and black enigmatic. Light grey, being the 'default' feels empty and barren in lack of background elements.
We've seen screenshots of a few upcoming mods that use less common colors for their background, like purple or dark red--any advice or predictions there?

A large part of level design, in a 'simple' tile-based game, is color theory... maybe we should revive that topic. :-)

--Xky
xtraverse
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Post by xtraverse »

You tried all four folders for NY3? If none of them work, use Dosbox, that should work. Anyways, for NY3 I used a very large variety--mostly reds and yellows as backgrounds, but sometimes blues and purples. What's your opinion on those?
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Post by KeenRush »

Your mod was first one that used all the time something other than mono-colour background. Quite nice. :)
It's nice to see other colours as a background, though I'm using gray and black. But in some mod I'm going to use white.
Argh, I have so many new mod ideas, I don't know what I planned to do some time ago.. :(
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XkyRauh
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re: Norp3

Post by XkyRauh »

Alright! DosBox fixed it--DosBox and Folder1, that is... fantastic work, an excellent way to wrap up your trilogy. You didn't really use any SOLID color backgrounds, though--everything was very mixed and jumbled.
The closest ones you came to a flat color were the yellow-with-cyan-diagonals and pink-red-Keen6-esque-squiggles. Both of those were easiest for my eyes to read... The Pink/Red I'd describe as "cozy" or "warm" and the yellow I'd call "safe" or "indoors"... neither really seems like an outside color for background, and they worked quite well at establishing the "inside-Mort" feeling you were going for. :-)

My only complaint has nothing to do with your level design, but more with Keen3 as a whole--Vortininji kick my butt. I can't stop them. Period. I think I managed to shoot one of your blue guys to death without cheating, but that was it... every other one that appeared slaughtered me without thinking twice. I just suck at Keen3!! :-(

I liked your enemy design in Norp3 the most, though--especially the way the blue d00ds animated. :-)

And I agree with your descritption of your penultimate level--it definitely had a building sense of danger--unfortunately I wasted my invincibility time by accident when trying to get thru that lower door too early... So I ended up doing the level twice. Too many Vortininji for me!

It's difficult to balance the enemies in Keen: the Vorticons in Keen1 can be unpredictable enough that just two of them can make a level range from "sleep-easy" to "sweating-bullets" depending on the player and where they decide to hop to... and I think Vortininji multiply that problem by a thousand. They are quite simply the most unpredictable, fast-moving enemy in any Keen game! If I ever do a Keen3 mod, I'm really going to have to think about what I do with them.

--Xky
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Post by KeenRush »

Vortininja, Xky, vortininja.. ;)
Anyways, I agree - that vortininja replacement in xtra's mod is probably the best enemy replacement I have ever seen. When I first time played it I didn't remember the vortininjas, or well, thought of them, and I wondered how xtra had managed to change something enemy to do so cool jumps and so on. :D
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Stickmanofdoom
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Post by Stickmanofdoom »

Vortininji is plural the plural of Vortininja, unless it's like "deer", then both forms would be spelled "deer". Mabey it's like the word ninja, in which case it the plural is ninjas. Stupid English!
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grelphy
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Post by grelphy »

Vortaninji is the plural of vortinija, much like meese is the plural of moose... maybe not.

I've never had any trouble with vortininjas, except in enclosed spaces - they have a tendency to leap over my head and into a bottomless pit. Or something. I have much more trouble with those stupid meeps...

Anyway, I find that most backgrounds become flat and blank without extra detailing: mountains in keen 1, trees in keen 3, etc. Without those, a flat background looks almost like a fake backdrop, such as those used in photography - a very bad idea. Levels look barren and empty and generally lack interest. Even a simple change, though (such as the "waffling" in Keen 2) can make large areas of one tile acceptable.

And about that evil level thing, I just get a kick out of imagining a player falling for that particular cheap trap... not to mention the kick from playtesting. Wee.
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Post by Snaily »

Mongoose, polygoose.

I'll pop in on this thread if I think of something worth your time. In the meantime - has anyone used the palette modifying patch to change the background color to any extent?
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boing

Post by xtraverse »

Give credit to Ceilick for the original design of my Vortininja replacement. He created the guy, I just modified it to fit my mod. The other weird enemies were of my imagination though.
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XkyRauh
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re: jas ji

Post by XkyRauh »

You know, I actually wrote about 80% of that post with the word "Vortininjas" in it, and then thought better of it and went back, changing them all to "Vortininji" ...I wasn't aware that Ninja's plural was Ninjas... but then again, I'm no English major! Live and learn.

As far as squiggles go for tiling backgrounds, one has to be careful to find a balance. In Keen2, the crossing framework background worked marvelously because all the actual walls/ceilings/floors in the level were THICK and BLUE. You'd have to look long and hard in Keen2 levels to find a place where those dark blue walls are only one tile thick--as a standard, they're two. Also, the crossing background gets drop-shading wherever the walls are--adding to the visual distinction between the two.

Finding the right balance of background-noise-versus-structure-complexity is a pain in the neck, but a very necessary one. I've designed a few backgrounds for my Keen2 mod that were WAY too 'busy' to the eye... literally gave CheesyDave a headache watching them scroll as he playtested. Some mods, like "The 4 Golden Crystals" or "Bazooka Wowbagger" had very complex ground tiles--often to the point of confusion! A saving grace was the simple backgrounds.
One major strike against Norp3 in my book was that both the ground and the background were incredibly busy--I found it hard to glance at the screen and get a hold of what was happening. But this is where playtesting comes in.

Contrary to what this post may lead you to believe, I enjoyed all the mods I mentioned. ;-) And I honestly encourage all the authors to continue modding!!

The palette-changing patches have yet to be truly exploited... but if CheesyDave ever gets the guts to finish and release any of his mods, you'll all see a great first attempt at it. :-)

--Xky
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Post by KeenRush »

Sounds cool. :) Well, I think I'm going to use it, but I would like to know what happens to the mask things..
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ckguy
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Post by ckguy »

I never really got what happened with using colored masks ...
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