DISCUSSION: Keen 6 level design.

Discussion and analysis of graphics, story, levels, and so on.
levellass
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Re: DISCUSSION: Keen 6 level design.

Post by levellass » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:49 pm

I am fond of this level too overall.

As 'The Bloogdome' I expected a more arena-like atmosphere, like The Thunderdome from Mad Max, it at least should have had some Bloog-related imagery.

However, like Xky, I also appreciate the mix of artificial and natural themes. The level strikes me as an older, more natural Bloog construct that was taken over by the Fleex and modernized. Some imagery reflecting this could have added a bit of atmosphere, something perhaps involving a more direct clash with purple tentacles spreading over grey panels or spots of recent construction. (Alternatively the other domes are artificial constructs that fell into disrepair in which case providing them with some rusty remnants of technology could have given a different feel to them.)

I'm not a fan of the thick dome walls, as with the other domes we should be able to see the outside. (Plus some basic spikes. I too would welcome some Nospikes stuck in walls.)

As a showcase for the Nospikes this falls flat; while interesting I feel they would work far better in a more open, platform-based level. There Keen could jump over and avoid them as well as lure them off of edges to fall satisfyingly long distances. We see, from he sheer number of shots needed to stun, that Nospikes were meant to be avoided or tricked rather than simply blasted through and using this as a gameplay mechanic would have been inventive. (However given that they were a 'reward' for playing on medium or hard their integration to a level was always going to be limited.) There are some nice moments with these guys, but still.

This would have made a better showcase for the Flect, given the difficulty of getting above them. This would force strategy since the player would have to hop over, lead and avoid them in many situations. The dome is passageway-like yet also open in many points.

As a whole I rate the level high, it is relatively short and uncomplicated, as opposed to say Bloogton Tower or Mnftg which can drag on. The area at the bottom was, as far as I recall, the first time I'd seen Platforms go where Keen couldn't (While staying on the board, pretty much.) It was a welcome challenge and had a different atmosphere. (Again natural, below.. As if it had been forced to retreat there as the above was modified, both figuratively and literally subsumed by technology.) All-in-all I find it a fun level to breeze through even though there's room for improvement. Its brevity and pacing make up for its shortfalls where as more solidly built levels that drag on can irk.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Keen 6 level design.

Post by Ceilick » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:17 am

1. Keen came to Fribbulus Xax on a weekday. The Bloogdome would ordinarily be packed to capacity on the weekend, but it's off-season right now, and so all Keen has to contend with are a few Nospikes doing personal training.
Haha!

Good point Levellass, the level design really is more conducive to Flects than Nospike, although for me this change alone would even further distance the level from my expectations for the "Bloogdome".

Not to harp on the point, but I also didn't mean to suggest the organic/artificial theme couldn't work, just that...its very haphazard here, especially as opposed to any of the other levels in Keen 6 which combine these themes. Additional tiles are needed to help blend these themes for this level. We see the kind of things that would work at the start and end of the level, with the red i-beams, but we could use more. More I-beams, maybe some weird angled ones connecting platform to platform, or some kind subtle transitional tiles, or areas of decay as Levellass mentions. That isn't to say there isn't value in the minimalism and 'less is more' trend so often seen in Keen, but as the level stands, for me, the themes feel smashed together like a bad fan level.

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XkyRauh
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Re: DISCUSSION: Keen 6 level design.

Post by XkyRauh » Sat May 27, 2017 3:11 pm

Hey, it's been a month and we've had plenty of time to reflect on how great(?) the Bloogdome is, so let's head over to Bloogton Manufacturing now!

Man, this level is some of the most blatant door-key-door progression that Doom was criticized for. Literally, the entire point of the level is to ascend the building to turn on a lone platform allowing you to retrieve the Yellow Keygem at the start of the level, so that you can ascend the building a second time. If younger me hadn't been so in love with the music of this level, I think it would've been a drag for sure.

Good things:
- Hey, those red pillars are rad! And they've got 3 different styles of top (for two different slopes and a flat top)! Neat!
- Lots of good 'explore more for bonus points' points. I dig the extra Sundaes and Pizzas you can get just for pogoing around and getting as far into the level's space as possible.
- The long trail of Bloog Soda bottles along the left chute for the return trip to the Keygem... I know it's not many points, but I appreciate a level-specific return path.

Bad things:
- Uhhhh, why do we need 3 copies of the same switch housing?
- Why do we even need the Red Keygem, for that matter? I've got a hunch the Red and Green Keygems were originally swapped, and someone spared us THAT level of tedium. Garg.
- Hey, check out this cluster of floating diagonal platforms on the left--we've got all this unused space here... better put something that looks boring and serves no point other than to frustrate players because the collision of these things is wonky!
- Backtracking. Again. I don't know why this didn't bother me so much when I was a youth!

As far as the factory theme goes, I liked how Bloogfoods was laid out in a pseudo-assembly-line fashion. I could at least PRETEND like there was some food production occurring, as I trekked through the level. Bloogton Manufacturing, however, is really devoid of process or purpose, it seems. There are two conveyor belts, but they are both near the beginning. And toxic slime? Also, multiple tiny diagonal platforms. Yes.

How could this level be improved? I'd argue that the level needs to be more compact, purposed, and industrial. If we are going to keep the door-key-door progression, let's at least divide the level into subsections, such that backtracking isn't required. Give us a pre-packaging area, heavy on the switches and poles, with the spike balls the primary danger. Give us a packaging area, where the conveyors are thick and the Bloogs/Blooguards ample. Give us a post-production area, where there is more open space for shipping/receiving, but the player needs to navigate some other hazard (perhaps a small maze).

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Re: DISCUSSION: Keen 6 level design.

Post by levellass » Mon May 29, 2017 5:53 am

I always thought this level should be laid on its side, be more horizontal than vertical. The one unique element really 'native' to this level is the conveyors, and they work best horizontally. (And, I should add, a bit faster.) The whole level seems to me to be formless platforming, something done much better (but still tediously) in Bloogton Tower. This could really have benefited from an actual organized structure, a storage room full of items, conveyors from place to place, a stomping-stamping area...ANYTHING that gave the building some semblance of structure or purpose.

The only thing that redeems this level for me is the music; without that it would be a chore.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Keen 6 level design.

Post by Fleexy » Mon May 29, 2017 7:16 pm

I think this level would be much improved by some variation in the background. Even a few factory-looking background objects would make it more interesting. I remember getting a little lost because all the platforms look the same, especially between the red and green door areas.

The thing that most frustrates me about this level is that the trickiest platforming event - grabbing the yellow key - is almost the last thing to do. If the player fails that and isn't using in-level saving, they have to do the whole level again. I almost never bothered with the Queen Viva because that area could only be attempted after dealing with virtually everything else. Maybe some challenge area with the extra life at stake could replace the Zone Of Seven Sprinkled Diagonal Platforms so the player could do it on the way up.

Speaking of going up, the level seems completely desolate on the last ascent holding the yellow key: likely all the guards are stunned and the player has to clamber up the same slopes once more. I'm not sure what to do about that short of completely reorganizing the level. In Myst III: Exile, some sections end with the player getting a long ride over the area and seeing it from a new perspective. Maybe a goplat trip back up from the yellow key area with some new opportunities for point-grabbing would be neat?

For what it's worth, I liked the switch housings because I enjoy figuring out what things do, but it would be an improvement if the housings were different shapes. That would make them more visually appealing and aid in remembering what assembly you were last experimenting with.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Keen 6 level design.

Post by Ceilick » Wed May 31, 2017 6:00 am

Bloogton Manufacturing, however, is really devoid of process or purpose, it seems. There are two conveyor belts, but they are both near the beginning. And toxic slime? Also, multiple tiny diagonal platforms. Yes.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say Bloogton Manufacturing produces diagonal platforms. Poorly made, unusable, diagonal platforms :)

I think I'd always seen the toxic slime as industrial byproduct; the two areas with it seem like vats the Bloogs dump things in.

Back tracking sucks, but I think the one thing in it's favor here is that there are not a whole lot of places to go in this level; for the most part it's just one long linear path. That said, you pretty much have to know what you're doing to take advantage of that (know where the yellow key is, know which switch triggers the goplat to access said key). In addition to the potential tedium of having to backtrack such a distance at all, Fleexy makes a good point about how desolate the return ascent is, assuming the enemies have been dispatched.

Considering this level occurs right before Bloogton Tower, the 'pinnacle' vertical level, I think Levellass has the right idea to turn this level into something more horizontal. A good height, to me, might be just below the green door. I'd wrap the green door/red pillar area around toward the upper right of the new level boundaries, and reposition all those switch casings in the bottom right of the new boundaries. Replace all the diagonal platforms with a more extensive conveyor belt jump-a-thon, dump the red key and door area in favor of an optional little area for collecting points (with the design intending to reflect the level's manufacturing theme). Lastly, reshape the switch housings to be unique, as Fleexy mentioned for his same reasons.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Keen 6 level design.

Post by XkyRauh » Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:38 am

I think I'm beginning to understand why Levellass was wanting a Keen6 remake... I kind of want to see a sketch/image of the Bloogton Manufacturing you're describing, Ceilick. :)

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Re: DISCUSSION: Keen 6 level design.

Post by levellass » Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:21 am

When I have the time I'll do it, a level-by-level remake.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Keen 6 level design.

Post by XkyRauh » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:36 am

Well... time for the worst level in the game: Bloogton Tower. Ugh.

This level is responsible for my aversion to the color dark cyan in 16 color games. Seriously, yuck. :(

Ultimately, if you know where to go when playing this level, it's not TOO bad--but the first time you're playing it, it's an awful lot of staring at a full screen of dark cyan, waiting for a platform to surface above the foreground for ~1 second before re-submerging. I can't think of many ways to make a level tedious and un-fun--this one takes the cake. So salty about Bloogton Tower.

First of all, you know the elevator rides are a bad idea when the level has to incorporate elevator tags that are unused anywhere else in the entire game. I know we criticized both Bloogton Manufacturing and Bloogfoods, Inc. for their lack of atmospheric/functional level bits, but placing literal elevators in the Bloogton Tower is frustratingly mundane. I get that we're navigating the Bloogs' home planet, same as we navigated the Vorticons' home planet in Episode III, but at least Vorticon IV had us visiting military installations and apartment complexes like "The Bonks," instead of what amounts to a glorified hotel. Why is the passcard to the rocket even sitting at the top of a hotel filled with toxic waste, anyway?! (And what kind of penthouse does a Bobba get, filled with said slime!?)

Second of all, we literally JUST DID the whole "climb the level to turn on the platform to retrieve a keygem" deal in the previous level--the level we had to complete to gain access to this one. Are we seriously going to use the same level gimmick with limited modification? At least this one is labeled, "Keygem," so we have some limited ability to understand that we'll have to backtrack. Yeesh.

I do have to pause, though, and admit that one of my favorite moments in all of Keen 6 is in this level. Doing an impossible pogo trick from the platform beneath the 4 pizza slices to bounce off the switch with the extra long base and ascend to land at the Green Keygem door always made me feel super spectacularly cool, and I wish more levels allowed Keen to do keen things like that. :)

That said, point distribution in this level is horrid. You took the optional elevator to the right of start? Here's 600 points and a bunch of additional ammo--you'll need it to deal with the mandatory Fleex encounters above. You ascended the series of vertical platforms that are mandatory for completing the level? Here's 20,000 points. Good job!

I appreciated the concept of Blooglets with gems, and I like that you have to mug a little blue fella for the Blue Keygem... but it feels like so much busywork. Look at how simple the Red Keygem-->Red Keygem Door process is, when you see the map, and compare it to how confusing the process felt the first time you experienced it in-game. I recall wandering around hopelessly for far too long in this level, because young me failed to make connections that seem blindingly obvious when viewing the map.

In short, this level aggravates me and I hate it. >:( Someone explain to me why it's worth having in the game.

At least let "Bloogton Tower" be some sort of architectural artwork, like an Eiffel Tower or Space Needle. Yuck!!

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Re: DISCUSSION: Keen 6 level design.

Post by Fleexy » Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:48 pm

View this level in Abiathar Online!

I'm not sure if it's just me being bad at memory, but I have a tendency in games to forget that half the level exists if I need to go around and do a bunch of stuff in the other half. Therefore, it took me forever the first time I played this to find my way back to the green key. This level would be less arduous on a new player if there wasn't that backtracking.

The mandatory long rides behind the cyan are an excellent argument for that one of Ceilick's Ten Commandments that says the player shouldn't have to go more than a couple tiles behind the foreground to complete the level. Some windows might help a little. Waiting for the elevators to come back if you miss isn't super fun. On the plus side, the two are pretty well synchronized, and I think the first one is designed so that you can wander left, shoot the Bloog, grab the red key, and meander back just in time to catch the elevator.

The more open upper area beyond the elevators is actually pretty fun once you know what level elements need to be controlled by switches, of which there are a lot. Maybe too many? I do appreciate the placement of the second red keygem where it can be seen looking down from the bottom of the open area, a nice reminder to go back a bit.

And yeah, the points story is strange. I would be inclined to put a pizza or two in the 600-point detour room and replace the four pizzas at the top with a couple shakes. Maybe sprinkle some sodas or even a banana split in the final room with the goplat ride. Also, this level contains no vivas other than the Queen, so I could stand to have some of those.

The very last room is, in my opinion, way harder than the rest of the level. After completing all that platforming and backtracking, it's super easy to miss the platform (which barely spends any time not over the slime) and fall to one's death. Then on Hard mode there's suddenly a huge Bobba that's basically guaranteed to kill if unexpected, all while the exit sign is in view. It would be neat if this last section had some background scenery to look like an important office, rather than just being filled with slime. Perhaps the whole level should be reshaped, as Xky suggested, into a needle-like edifice, where the player can see the sky outside the walls. Immersion!

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Re: DISCUSSION: Keen 6 level design.

Post by levellass » Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:06 pm

Not a lot to say here, level stinks. For the elvators I'd at least have a loop with many platforms to cut down waiting times. (At best, well I ave patched up a spring tile property...) With such a tall level you should fight your way to the top and then exit, no up and down stuff. Or maybe a door from the top to the bottom, let Keen's walking of stairs happen in an instant. Worst. Leve. Ever.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Keen 6 level design.

Post by Ceilick » Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:23 am

Wow, great analysis on this one so far! Of particular note to me is Xky's observation of the dismal point distribution in this level, and Fleexy's addendum on lack of vivas.

As Fleexy notes, this level breaks what I consider an essential rule for good Keen galaxy levels and that's not too have too much of the action behind solid foreground tiles. This level is particularly problematic in that regard because of what Xky notes: the overflow of plain, untextured dark cyan. The player, knowing pretty quickly that they're going to have to navigate behind walls in this level, is going to see all these solid dark cyan spaces as even more potential areas to go, which can contribute to feeling lost and just being overwhelmed in regard to how to even approach the level. I'd want to remove these segments, and additionally make a lot of the rooms and corridors larger to cut back on the cyan.

On the subject of too much cyan, why in the world did they choose to showcase the Fleex in this level? MORE cyan? I feel we'd be better off with just Bloogs, Blooglets, a few Blooguards, and the lone Ceilick and Bobba. Maybe some Babobba, more Ceilick, or even Bip Ships strike me as a potentially good choice for this one. Not Fleex unless there is some kind of background/color overhaul.

Another rule it breaks for me is having multiple red gems. I suppose this is more a pet peeve than anything, and I can see why they chose to do it in this level; if the player somehow misses the red at the bottom and finds the red gem door, they're likely to cross the same hallway and find the red gem above the bridge and think "hmm, gotta open that bridge" and then inevitably find the other red gem instead. That's a mildly interesting experience for the player, I guess.

Something else that just kind of bothers me: why does keen start in the middle of the floor with no door or any kind of level entrance in site?

Personally, I don't mind this level as a big vertical or as a hotel, but there are two significant changes I'd make to increase the value and playability of those themes:

Background variation. We need hotel rooms, dining halls, corridors, offices, and whatever else--it doesn't have to be too elaborate, just enough to tease the imagination. This applies to the foreground too, we need less big cyan blocks. Like Xky and Fleexy point out, Bobba's penthouse should have a background (and foreground for that matter, do something different with that slime! Slime Jacuzzi?) that makes it feel like the mini-boss/final challenge zone of the level. To give some rationalization as to why the rocket pass in here, maybe put it behind a gem door such that it feels like Keen is breaking into a safety deposit box.

Split the level into more distinct zones. I feel this would best be done with a first zone which extends up to the about the height of just under the blue gem door, a second zone which goes from the level of the blue gem door, and a third zone at the second red gem door. Now, the level already mostly does this, however, I would want to make a much more distinct separation of zone 1 and 2. Best way to do this is to block off the hole in the ceiling above the main elevator shaft by the blue gem door, preventing the player from accidentally returning to zone 1 and helping communicate to the player "Hey, you're in zone 2 now". Additionally, it would help communicate that to the player if they have only one path to go after taking that elevator ride, so either wall up the left path (move the blue blooglet somewhere else), wall up the right path (move the blue door somewhere after the blue blooglet, put a goplat or something above the blue blooglet), or extend the ceiling by the Ceilick (thus creating a small zone 1.5).

TLDR: I feel like this level could be improved significantly with only minor alterations to the actual pathing design (around the blue door), more point items, and mostly just a graphical overhaul (which includes removing a lot of the foreground Keen would normally travel behind).

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Re: DISCUSSION: Keen 6 level design.

Post by XkyRauh » Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:27 am

So for the rest of the levels coming up in Keen6, I have to admit I've played them a lot less than the others. Bloogton Tower was a pretty frequent stopping point for young me--the arduous gameplay slog of two vertical key-door-key-door levels in a row really wore on me, and I switched over to Secret Agent Mission or Crystal Caves after too long. :)

Guard Post Two is a level that deserves praise, in my opinion. It captures its map presence well, the way Levellass frequently wishes levels did, with the Xaxian turf present on both sides of the Post, and the bulk of the checkpoint appropriately populated by Blooguards. I dig it! Add in several underground secret areas, a hidden exit, and an optional cache of points at the top for extra challenge, and I feel like this is one of Keen6's better levels.

The only thing that really irks me is the pogo ascent up and left from the Red Keygem door. That corridor feels a bit too cramped, to me. Almost as if Keen were climbing into a ventilation shaft to access a different part of the post (something that I'd considered using in my never-finished Keen4 mod)... something that I didn't think fit the theme of the level. I think I know why it bothers me, though: Look at the height of the ceiling where the first Blooguard on the left is. Look at the ceiling where the Blooguard on the uppermost path is. Look at the extra high ceiling in the chamber where the rightmost Blooguard is on the upper level... they're about two Bloogs high. That gives the Blooguard a more intimidating presence, to me, since it controls such a large area.

Stuffing that much danger into an area scarcely a single Bloog high feels, well, lackluster. They do it again near the Yellow Keygem Socket (which is also an interesting design choice, separate from the door itself--is that done anywhere else in Keen6, besides the Bloog Control Center?). I think what would "fix" this issue, for me, is to make sure Blooguards always have a room that is a certain height. This means either re-doing the area with the Yellow Blooglet to accommodate a higher ceiling below, or dropping the Blooguard's hallway down, as well as making the upper Blooguard's hallway the same level as the Yellow Keygem Socket, possibly eliminating the lone Bloog Soda to keep the barriers in place. Does that make sense?

Along those same lines, I think the reason the lower rightmost Blooguard's patrol route doesn't bug me as much is because it eventually opens up to allow the Blooguard to stretch his club arm out near the Red Keygem Socket. Plenty high ceiling there--and the lowered ceiling that IS in the hallway seems temporary with the extra screws--I don't know why, but that small visual detail makes the cramped space much more 'logical' than the other two Blooguards' routes.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Keen 6 level design.

Post by Ceilick » Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:25 am

Absolutely agree that this is one of Keen 6's better levels. The variety of scenery, the pathing/flow, and exploration/challenge factor.

I think that's a good call on the Blooguards for exactly your reasons: he's big, dangerous, and 'controls' (makes dangerous) a large area around him, and as you say, stuffing him in a smaller space negates that threat. It's almost like having that extra ceiling space gives the player the thought "Well I could try to jump him, but that seems dangerous", perhaps adding a layer to their sense of danger?

As for the one beyond the red gem door, I'd add that in addition to the area opening up, the door itself makes it a kind of pandoras box situation in which the player has unwittingly made them self vulnerable to this big threat which they may not have expected in such a low ceilinged area.

As for my unique comments on this level, I really like how the entire upper area of the level is optional and only accessible via the tree at the start. I like that the player can be inside the building and see that upper area but not necessarily know how to get there. This works especially wells since its the entire upper area of the level, not just a partial section; it makes it easier for the player to ultimately deduce how to get up there.

I actually really like how overall linear this level is without being particularly obvious about it while playing. I still feel like I'm exploring.

The optional underground area at the start of this level has always bothered me. I feel like it's just too cramped and would want an easier path down there and maybe enlarge the entry archway and bring the room lower into the earth so it's not as easily seen when starting the level.

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Re: DISCUSSION: Keen 6 level design.

Post by Fleexy » Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:36 pm

This level is quite nice. Here it is in Abiathar Online, FWIW. (I realize this would be far more useful with links and tileinfo overlays. Those will hopefully be done Soon[TM]. EDIT: Links are working!) I really love how this level is exactly what it is on the map: an installation blocking the way through the natural terrain.

The ammo distribution is excellent here. Playing this level from a near-empty start (because F10+W), I had neither too little nor an overabundance of shots. Another reason to appreciate the upper area is that it has optional ammo that can be grabbed if the player runs out in the obligatory section. The points distribution is alright, but could be better. There are only 1600 points for making it all the way to the top right of the upper area, but 10K for grabbing the pizzas in the fire orb pit. I would be inclined to put more points down in the underground sections too. I do appreciate that there are vivas sprinkled around, though.

The center of the level is cramped, now that you both mention it, though I could never put a finger on that before. That and the obviousness of the first underground area could be addressed by making the level deeper, keeping the underground negative space anchored to the bottom but stretching out the middle. I like how the fall down the middle with the popsicles brings the vertical goplat back into view in case the player had forgotten that was a way. Not sure if that was intentional, but it's good. The key-dropping Blooglets are obvious to me now - there's nowhere else to go - but took me forever to figure out the first time I played. (I did this level before Bloogton Tower, so I had no idea there could be keys not just hanging around.) I guess my brain thought that the red key area was just for points because it was another place to explore before passing through any keyed doors? That might be more due to me being seven at the time than to the level's design, though. The best thing I can think of to address that would be to remove the points behind that key-carrying Blooglet. Once learning that game mechanic, the rest of the level is a good time.

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