Points problem

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Orchamus
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Points problem

Post by Orchamus »

I replaced the Shikadi Soda with another type of drink in my Keen 4 mod and then I imported it with the respective command via DOSBox.

Strangely in the first level I noted that a part of these points items were the same of the original Commander Keen 4 (Shikadi Soda) while another one were changed (with my new drink) but with different colors than the ones I chose with Paint.

Any suggestions?
Bernie
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Post by Bernie »

i dont know how far along you are with patching but i'll start from the basics...

theres two different types of each of the point items- there are tile based versions and sprite based versions. have you fiddled around with changing the games tile set? cause if you had a look at the tile set, you'll see there are the point items there too (or do you already know that?) - and the other type, the sprite type, are found along with all the other sprites in the game (like the enemy sprites etc.). you have to change both types, basically.

and as for the colour thing- the game has its own 16 colour pallette. so if you use any other colour it'll come out different in the game. one way you can get the keen game's pallete is to open up a sprite and get the pallete from that image (i dunno how to do it with Paint though). do you have photoshop? i know how to get it from there.
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Orchamus
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Post by Orchamus »

Well, it's my first mod experience so I don't know much about patching and other things.

What do you mean with "tile based versions" and "sprite based versions"? And maybe I'm wrong but I don't think I had a look at what have you said.

While, about the colors, I have always taken those from images in my graphics folder but the result has been always the same.

P.S: I have Photoshop.
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troublesomekeen
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Re: Points problem

Post by troublesomekeen »

Orchamus wrote:I replaced the Shikadi Soda with another type of drink in my Keen 4 mod and then I imported it with the respective command via DOSBox.

Strangely in the first level I noted that a part of these points items were the same of the original Commander Keen 4 (Shikadi Soda) while another one were changed (with my new drink) but with different colors than the ones I chose with Paint.

Any suggestions?
Okay. So you want to replace the Shikadi Soda with your own creation. Shikadi Soda, along with the ice cream cones, donuts and other candy, are Point Items. There are two different kinds of Point Items with the same appearance: The Tile Points and the Sprite Points.

Sprites take up more memory than Tiles. Levels are built from Foreground Tiles and Background Tiles. Normally, the Tile Points are used, but if the designer wants to place a Point Item over a Foreground Tiles, he must use a Sprite Point.

Anyways. Edit the Shikadi Soda sprites in the graphics folder (Keengraph=4SPR0227, or ModKeen=4SPR0103) AND edit the Point Tile in the Foreground Tileset. (Keengraph=4TIL-16-MASKED; ModKeen=4TIL0000) You'll find the Point Tiles in the about the middle of the bitmap to the left.
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Orchamus
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Re: Points problem

Post by Orchamus »

troublesomekeen wrote:Anyways. Edit the Shikadi Soda sprites in the graphics folder (Keengraph=4SPR0227, or ModKeen=4SPR0103) AND edit the Point Tile in the Foreground Tileset. (Keengraph=4TIL-16-MASKED; ModKeen=4TIL0000) You'll find the Point Tiles in the about the middle of the bitmap to the left.
I didn't find any Point Items in the image "4TIL0000" so I opened the other one "4TIL0001" and I started edit.

After completing changes... Well, all the Shikadi Soda were successfully modified with my own candy but the colors were a big mess!

The entire game has faded, nothing has the original color anymore, except for the monsters.

I don't know why.

Probably I did something wrong.
Nospike
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Post by Nospike »

You must only use the original 16 colors. If you're using Paint, use the color picker tool to steal the color from somewhere else in the picture.
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Orchamus
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Post by Orchamus »

Nospike wrote:You must only use the original 16 colors. If you're using Paint, use the color picker tool to steal the color from somewhere else in the picture.
I did exactly so! I never used other colors, always those from the pictures in my "graphics" folder.

As I said above, maybe I did something else wrong. Anyway I'll try to do other attemps to see if I make some progresses.
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Fleexy
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Post by Fleexy »

The Paint on Windows Vista and above butchers the colors of 16-bit images. I personally recommend GraphicsGale for editing Keen graphics.
Nospike
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Post by Nospike »

Oh, I completely forgot about this too. Fleexy's right.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qf1r73x4521c1yy/mspaint.exe
Here's a quick download for the old Windows XP Paint if you want it. Works wonders for me.
levellass
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Post by levellass »

Indeed, the modern paint programs do not work well for pixel art.
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Orchamus
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Post by Orchamus »

Fleexy wrote:The Paint on Windows Vista and above butchers the colors of 16-bit images. I personally recommend GraphicsGale for editing Keen graphics.
Splendid! I did it! Thank you, Fleexy!

I edited the images with the old version of Paint that I installed time ago.

Now, I have only a little trouble: mostly of my new candies have a problem when floating. Infact these move slightly up and down but I didn't put any animations about movement.

How can I resolve this issue?
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troublesomekeen
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Re: Points problem

Post by troublesomekeen »

Orchamus wrote:I didn't find any Point Items in the image "4TIL0000" so I opened the other one "4TIL0001" and I started edit.
Whoops, my mistake. :embarrassed-face
I keep forgetting not to mix up the Background and Foreground Tileset Names. Sorry about that. "4TIL0001" is indeed the Foreground Set containing the precious Tile Point Items.
Orchamus wrote:Now, I have only a little trouble: mostly of my new candies have a problem when floating. Infact these move slightly up and down but I didn't put any animations about movement.

How can I resolve this issue?
Hmmm... Which Point Items are bobbing up and down? The Point Sprites or the Point Tiles? If I understand you correctly, the fix is simple.

Point Items (Tiles) animated endlessly between two tiles. (That can be changed.) Every tile is made up of 16 x 16 pixels. If you draw a Jawbreaker that blinks from bright red to dark red, but the positioning is not consistent, the Jawbreaker will look like it's bobbing up and down in midair. Take these tomatoes for instance.

Image

Tomato 1 animates to Tomato 2, and 2 back to 1.

The other tomatoes (A and B) likewise animated back and forth to each other. A to B, B to A, A to B, and so on, and so forth.

But notice that Tomato B is accidentally placed a little lower in the 16 x 16 tile area. That's where this bobbing is coming from. With all the blackness surrounding everything in Modkeen graphic extractions, it is difficult to know if your Candy (or Fruit, in my case) is properly positioned.
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Orchamus
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Post by Orchamus »

Okay. I moved slightly down the image "4SPR0104" (compared to 4SPR0103) in the Foreground Set and I resolved the floating problem.

But there's another little problem, smaller (if not insignificant) than the previous one: only when my new candies are very close each other horizontally or vertically, some sweets are placed slighty up (without any animations).

Personally, I don't think this is a really issue but if you have any suggestions, it's always better.
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troublesomekeen
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Post by troublesomekeen »

So when you place two of the same candy side-by-side in a level with TOM, import the graphics, start up the game and go to that level, one of the candies appear a pixel or two higher?
Hmmm.... Quite odd. Which Point Items are we talking about? The Sprites or the Tiles? If it is the Sprites, what are the dimensions of the bitmaps? They should be about 48 x 16. Perhaps the dimensions of the two animating sprites are different.
There is a file in the "graphics" folder called 4SPRITES, which might need some tweaking.
levellass
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Post by levellass »

Indeed likely you have resized the point items. This is why it actually pays to make items bob up and down a bit, it makes things like this far less easy to notice.
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