Modding Keen:Modding

Post by **Ceilick** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:09 am

I agree with Draik, deletion.

levellass · Post by **levellass** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:55 am

Yes, that would clean things up nicely, out with the old and in with the new as it were.

CommanderSpleen · Post by **CommanderSpleen** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:54 am

Deletion of sections, anyway. Some of the less populated sections could have their threads moved to the more generic subforums.

Post by **XkyRauh** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:36 am

So at this point, next week my to-do list is looking like this:

+ Add a "Theory" forum, and see if I can't move a few existing threads into it.

- Delete sections for KeenWright, Keen Make-Over, KeenEdit, iKeen, and Patch-o-Tron.

lemm, I don't know if we can do sub-forums, and even if we could, I don't know that having specific sub-forums for Sound/Graphics/Map+Tileinfo would be beneficial. I particularly don't see the point of an "Other Utilities" subforum if we're already listing other utilities down below! (please explain if I'm wrong, though--I know I'm not up to snuff on this stuff!)

The whole reason we had the Keen1/2/3 Patches forum, and then the separate Discussion & Request forum, was because this forum predated the KeenWiki, and so sorting the "final, ready-to-use" patches from the "begging for a patch" malarkey was desirable.

Which begs the question: Now that we have the KeenWiki, or even the Patch Database, do we need to keep the forums organized as they are?

Also, while we're at it, if I'm going to be creating new forums for the extra tools we need, what are they? :) I want to help, but I'm more than a little clueless! Please continue explaining/discussing.

Draik · Post by **Draik** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:08 am

the sub-forum deal is why someone needs to get on Andy's case.

The patch separation doesn't serve much of a useful purpose right now, since completed patches in response to requests sit moldering in the requests forum, and we hardly get enough volume of requests or complete patches to necessitate the distinction.

Post by **Ceilick** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:16 am

Hmm, rethinking Lemm's outline, it just occurred to me that tools like Modkeen and ckpatch will end up appearing twice in the forum, which may make it hard to track down information for some people. So while I think a more concise forum is good, I'm leaning away from bunching some of our utilities.

I do like the idea of removing "completed patches" sections, since as Draik said they are often repeats from the request sections. Additionally, if we keep everything up to date on the keenwiki, losing these subforums wouldn't be much of a loss.

Outline:

Code: Select all

Modding: Talk
-  The Mods 
-  General 
-  Theory 
-  CKCM 
-  Coding 

Keen: Vorticons 
-  Patch Requests
-  Level Editors (Mindbelt)
-  Tile Property Tools (V2, Tile Info, Tile Tool)

Keen: Galaxy + Dreams 
-  Patch Requests
-  Level Editors (Ted 5, Keen: Next, The Omegamatic)
-  Tile Property Tools (CkD456Tli)

Modding: General Tools
-  CkPatch
-  Keengraph
-  KeenWave
-  Modkeen
-  Startext
-  TSRmusic
-  Miscelaneous Tools (fin2bmp, unlzexe, KeenScr, The Draw, WDC, IMFCreator, K5Splode, other small, seldom used, or redundant tools which people may want)

This outline would give us 8 less subforums than we currently have.

Couple of clarifications: V2 is placed in the Tile Tools section since it seems like it is closely releated. TSRMusic is not in the Vorticons section since it may become applicable to Keen Dreams.

Tulip · Post by **Tulip** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:13 am

looks good,
In your outline there's only a patch requests section and no finished patches section though. I understand the patch index was also traditionally found in requests not in finished, so that could probably hold both, with a sticky refererring to the KeenWiki or something.

Post by **XkyRauh** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:41 pm

Tulip: That's the whole point. Because this board pre-dated the Patch Index and the Wiki, we had a Requests forum for discussing/figuring out the patches, and then a Finished Patches section for each episode, so that people could quickly navigate to patches that existed.

Now that we have external websites for databasing patches, we no longer need the "Completed Patches" sections. We'll pare down to just the "Patch Requests & Discussion" board, and have a sticky/announcement at the top which references both the KeenWiki and the Patch Index.

Ceilick, your new idea looks very good.

Just so I'm clear, within the "Level Editors" section under K:Vorticons, for example, there will simply be sticky threads for Mindbelt and any other K:V editors, and then threads of discussion? Would "Level Editors" for K:Galaxy have stickies for Ted5, K:N, TheOmegamatic, etc? :)

CommanderSpleen · Post by **CommanderSpleen** » Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:32 am

We'll pare down to just the "Patch Requests & Discussion" board, and have a sticky/announcement at the top which references both the KeenWiki and the Patch Index.

Hmm... if this happens, we should definitely not rush it. It is a lot more effort to add a patch to the wiki than to post a thread about it. I would be inclined to keep the completed patches section and only delete the threads after ensuring they've been added to the wiki.

lemm · Post by **lemm** » Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:49 am

As a point, I don't think that any content should be outright deleted. At the very least, store any unwanted threads in a locked archive board.

Post by **XkyRauh** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:10 am

CommanderSpleen wrote:
We'll pare down to just the "Patch Requests & Discussion" board, and have a sticky/announcement at the top which references both the KeenWiki and the Patch Index.
Hmm... if this happens, we should definitely not rush it. It is a lot more effort to add a patch to the wiki than to post a thread about it. I would be inclined to keep the completed patches section and only delete the threads after ensuring they've been added to the wiki.

That's why we have the existing forums for patches in the current set-up... Requests & Discussion is for what the name implies, and then the final product gets re-posted in the other forum, for storage/display. :) Ideally, the completed requests would be locked/deleted upon completion, and the cycle would continue.

Post by **XkyRauh** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:39 pm

Alright!

I've got the bulk of the moving done.

Please provide feedback, wailing and gnashing of teeth. :)

Edit: In particular, I'd like some help with descriptions for many of the utilities that forums were requested for under Modding:Tools. Tell me what those things do!

Post by **XkyRauh** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:21 pm

Question: Should "Completed Patches" become its own section, for now, until a later date when the Patch Index or the KeenWiki can be updated more readily?

I ask because the divisions for K:V and K:G look a little crowded at the moment.

Also: If someone wants to write up an informational post about each of the major editors (Mindbelt, etc.) I can Sticky those in their appropriate forum. :)

Post by **Ceilick** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:59 am

Looking cool! Ideally I think we should have the authors of tools start the topic threads in each section so that they can easily be updated with the latest versions of the programs. These topics could then be stickied.

That means we need Levellass to start us out in the KeenGraph, KeenWave, and StarText sections. Lemm should get us started with TSRMusic, Mink should start a new Omegamatic thread or the existing one should be moved to Galaxy Editors, Dr. Kylestein should start a new Tileset Tool thread or have the existing one moved to Vorticon Tile Property Tools, etc etc.

The Modkeen section should indicate that there is a version which can edit Keen Dreams. I suggest "Modkeen 2.0.1 Keen Dreams Edition" be stickied. Since the link for the keen dreams edition is dead, Multimania's post will need to be edited to give a working link. I've rehosted it here: http://files.commanderkeen.org/users/ce ... dition.zip

The "a 32-bit version of Modkeen" topic seems outdated and the links are dead, I suggest it be unstickied.

In the ckpatch section, Mink will be posting his KDRPatch at some point, and it should be stickied.

The Galaxy Level Editors section should indicate in its description that Keen Dreams levels can also be edited with some of the editors.

At some point we need clear and concise sticky topics for each editor: ted5, Keen:Next, and The Omegamatic. These should have download links and instructions for starting the editor.

It seems all the Keen:next threads were accidentally placed in the Vorticons Level Editors section; they should be moved to galaxy. This includes the following threads:
-Where can I get KNEdit
-Keen:Next tutorial
-KeeN:next with dreams support
-how can i play my self made map
-Okay, I'm at a total loss here
-import tiles from modkeen (solution)
-open gates
-saving, exporting, etc
-Blank sprites?
-Tiles

Additionally, since these topics were made in the context of a Keen:next subforum, I suggest editing the topic names of each with "(Keen:Next)" at the end for those which do not indicate they are referring to that editor. I suggest the same be done for all Ted5 threads and mindbelt threads.

In Galaxy Tile Property Tools, CkD456Tli should be stickied. The link within this thread should be fixed, probably by Mink, so that it doesn't need to be copied into the browser to download.

whew, end of long exhausting post for now, more suggestions to come :)

CommanderSpleen · Post by **CommanderSpleen** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:08 am

The Patches sub(sub?)sections look a bit cluttered to me. The dash in particular looks out of place. Maybe "PATCHES: [episode title]" or "Keen [episode number] Patches"?